I was in a Hezbollah tunnel

[StephenStephen]

I respect your intelligence and appreciate your criticism, StephenStephen.

Are you criticising my laughing at nwgs2 request for a balanced intelligent discussion, or the criticism of the name-calling?

If you think for one moment that nwgs2 is capable of a balanced, intelligent discussion, you haven't been paying attention lately.

If its criticism about the tactics of accusing others of being terrorist supporters because they have an alternative opinion of Israeli aggression, is not conducive to a balanced nor healthy discussion, then you are again wide of the mark.
Tactics like that are purely an offensive, abusive accusation, with absolutely no shred of evidence to support it.
It's in the same category as calling others Jew-haters for objecting to Israeli aggression.

I'm not addressing anyone's posts here except yours.

When you claim to seek reasonable intelligent discussion, then repeatedly post cold-hearted derision and one-sided analysis you do no favours to any of the victims of this terrible conflict.

 

[Nwgs2]

Support for Israel often stems from a variety of political, historical, cultural, and religious perspectives. Here are some of the common arguments in favor of Israel:

### 1. **Right to Self-Determination**
Israel is the homeland of the Jewish people, who have a historical and continuous connection to the land for thousands of years. The establishment of Israel in 1948 is seen as the fulfillment of Jewish self-determination, particularly after centuries of persecution, including the Holocaust.

### 2. **Democracy in the Middle East**
Israel is often recognized as the only liberal democracy in the Middle East. It guarantees freedom of speech, religion, press, and has a robust judicial system. In contrast to many of its neighboring countries, Israel has free elections, an independent judiciary, and strong protections for minority groups, including Arab citizens.

### 3. **Security Concerns**
Israel faces significant security threats from various actors, including Hamas, Hezbollah, and hostile neighboring states. Supporters argue that Israel’s military actions and security measures, such as the construction of the security barrier, are necessary for the country’s survival and the protection of its citizens against terrorism.

### 4. **Strategic Ally**
Israel is an important ally to many Western countries, particularly the United States, due to its strategic location in the Middle East. It shares intelligence, military cooperation, and technological innovations, playing a key role in counter-terrorism efforts and regional stability.

### 5. **Peace Efforts**
Despite ongoing conflict, Israel has consistently demonstrated willingness to negotiate for peace. It signed peace treaties with Egypt (1979) and Jordan (1994) and has engaged in multiple rounds of peace talks with the Palestinians, though achieving a final resolution has been elusive.

### 6. **Technological and Economic Achievements**
Israel has become a hub of innovation and technology, often referred to as the “Start-Up Nation.” Its achievements in fields such as agriculture, water conservation, medicine, and cybersecurity have had a global impact. Economically, Israel has a highly developed and diversified economy, contributing significantly to global technological advances.

### 7. **Moral and Ethical Responsibility**
Many supporters of Israel argue that the international community has a moral responsibility to support the Jewish state due to the atrocities faced by Jews throughout history, particularly during the Holocaust. Ensuring Israel’s safety and sovereignty is seen as a way to prevent future persecution of Jewish people.

 

[Nwgs2]

Hezbollah (or "Hezbollāh," meaning "Party of God" in Arabic) is a Shia Islamist political and militant organization based in Lebanon. It has both a military wing, which is considered a terrorist organization by several countries, and a political wing that holds significant power in Lebanon’s government. The term "anti-Hezbollah" typically refers to opposition to Hezbollah's activities, influence, and ideology, both within Lebanon and internationally.

There are several reasons for anti-Hezbollah sentiment:

### 1. **Terrorist Designation**
Many countries, including the United States, Canada, and much of the European Union, have designated Hezbollah's military wing or the organization as a whole as a terrorist group. This is largely due to its involvement in acts of terrorism, including bombings, assassinations, and attacks against Israeli, Western, and other targets.

### 2. **Lebanese Political Scene**
Hezbollah has a significant influence in Lebanon’s politics, and many Lebanese, especially from non-Shia communities, view this as detrimental. Its armed wing operates outside of the Lebanese military, creating a "state within a state," which many Lebanese citizens oppose, as it undermines Lebanon’s sovereignty and government authority.

### 3. **Ties with Iran**
Hezbollah is closely aligned with Iran and is seen as a proxy for advancing Iranian influence in the region. Its critics, particularly Sunni Arab states like Saudi Arabia and Israel, view Hezbollah's relationship with Iran as a destabilizing factor in the Middle East.

### 4. **Role in Syria**
Hezbollah has played a significant role in the Syrian Civil War, fighting on behalf of the Assad regime. Its involvement, supported by Iran, has been criticized for prolonging the conflict and increasing sectarian tensions in the region.

### 5. **Israel Conflict**
Hezbollah has been in a long-standing conflict with Israel, particularly after the 2006 Lebanon War. Many anti-Hezbollah voices come from those who support Israel or oppose Hezbollah’s anti-Israel activities, including rocket attacks and military confrontations.

In summary, "anti-Hezbollah" sentiment arises from concerns over terrorism, regional instability, Iranian influence, and the group's internal role in Lebanon. Opposition to Hezbollah comes from both regional powers like Israel and Saudi Arabia, as well as internal factions within Lebanon and international actors.

 

[StephenStephen]

Thank you for your response. But I note you choose to criticise my tone, and at the same time fail to notice the unacceptable, abusive, offensive and false accusations made by Munroast.

Aren't your criticisms in danger of becoming a little one-sided in this discussion?

I don't think Munroast is claiming to take a balanced view!

 

[Mrs Ten Names]

If only you could have said this to the Palestinians on October 6th….

The conflict did not begin on 7th October 2023. It's been going on for decades. Ever since the UN Resolution 181. The UN had no right to that land, it wasn't theirs.
If anyone controlled it, it was UK, and they abstained from the vote. It was the the middle of the end (to borrow one of Churchill's affectations) of the British Empire

 

[Mrs Ten Names]

I’ve condemned both sides numerous times.

All I’m trying to do with this thread is point out Isreal are just as much the victims as Palestine.

But it’s almost impossible in the GD.

Palestinians have not dominated, imprisoned, tortured, killed, mistreated, starved, controlled, and dispossessed Israelis for decades.

 

[Mrs Ten Names]

I don't think Munroast is claiming to take a balanced view!

But you failed to criticise his use of offensive, abusive, false accusations, and you didn't like my tone?

Which do you dislike most: offensive, abusive, false accusations, or a strenuous, even vociferous, argument, based on facts and reality?

 

[Nwgs2]

2 pages in and it’s turned into the Mrs Troll show, again.

Based on recent history, this thread doesn’t have long to run now.

And posts will be removed.

 

[Mrs Ten Names]

It’s true that historical narratives are often subject to interpretation, and the way history is framed can shape public opinion and influence contemporary events. It's essential to challenge misrepresentations and seek a more balanced, truthful understanding, especially when it comes to complex, conflict-ridden issues. Often, the versions of history put forth can be selective or biased, depending on the source, which is why careful research, critical analysis, and contextual understanding are vital to uncovering the full story.

Conflicts, especially those supported or exacerbated by global powers, can be particularly fraught with misinformation or one-sided perspectives. Understanding the broader historical and political context, along with the lived experiences and tragedies of all involved, can help ensure a more nuanced view of events. The obligation to challenge distorted versions of history is not just about defending accuracy but also about advocating for justice, empathy, and informed decision-making in the present.

Can you provide a link to your source, please?

 

[Mrs Ten Names]

2 pages in and it’s turned into the Mrs Troll show, again.

Based on recent history, this thread doesn’t have long to run now.

And posts will be removed.

You've already decided which posts to remove?

It's like the blue tick on twitter, I'm not sure what that is, but I gather it's a method of ensuring certain posts are given greater emphasis, and certain opinions are granted more 'social media presence'.
Basically it's a method of twisting, controlling and influencing public opinion.
And I see you're more than willing to exploit it.

And nor, it seems, for the social media giants whose algorithms, time and time again, are accused of prioritising engagement over safety, pushing content regardless of the reaction it can provoke.
To make sense of the role of the social media giants in all this, it’s useful to start by looking at the cases of a dad in Pakistan and a businesswoman from Chester.
On X (formerly known as Twitter) a pseudo-news website called Channel3Now posted a false name of the 17-year-old charged over the murders of three girls in Southport. This false name was then widely quoted by others.
Another poster who shared the false name on X was Bernadette Spofforth, a 55-year-old from Chester with more than 50,000 followers. She had previously shared posts raising questions about lockdown and net-zero climate change measures.
The posts from Channel3Now and Ms Spofforth also wrongly suggested the 17-year-old was an asylum seeker who had arrived in the UK by boat.
All this, combined with further untrue claims from other sources that the attacker was a Muslim, was widely blamed for contributing to the riots - some of which targeted mosques and asylum seekers.
I found that Channel3Now was connected to a man named Farhan Asif in Pakistan, as well as a hockey player in Nova Scotia and someone who claimed to be called Kevin. The site appeared to be a commercial operation looking to increase views and sell adverts.
Decisions made under the tenure of Elon Musk, the owner of X, are also part of the story. These decisions include the ability to purchase blue ticks, which afford your posts greater prominence, and a new approach to moderation that favours freedom of expression above all else.

They were arrested for posting on social media during the riots – will it change anything?

Charges following disorder felt significant, but for social media giants there was no day of reckoning.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Mrs Ten Names]

I'm not addressing anyone's posts here except yours.

When you claim to seek reasonable intelligent discussion, then repeatedly post cold-hearted derision and one-sided analysis you do no favours to any of the victims of this terrible conflict.

Precisely, you are only criticising my posts, because in your opinion they are cold-hearted derision.
Violent aggression needs some cold-hearted derision, whoever is responsible.
Yet you appear to be comfortable with cold-hearted derision of Palestinian violence. and you object to cold-hearted derision of Israeli violence.

Nor do you criticise the one-sided comments of others.
You are not criticising the abusive, offensive, false accusations.

In fact, you have resorted to metaphorically 'shooting the messenger'.

 

[Mrs Ten Names]

Support for Israel often stems from a variety of political, historical, cultural, and religious perspectives. Here are some of the common arguments in favor of Israel:

### 1. **Right to Self-Determination**
Israel is the homeland of the Jewish people, who have a historical and continuous connection to the land for thousands of years. The establishment of Israel in 1948 is seen as the fulfillment of Jewish self-determination, particularly after centuries of persecution, including the Holocaust.

### 2. **Democracy in the Middle East**
Israel is often recognized as the only liberal democracy in the Middle East. It guarantees freedom of speech, religion, press, and has a robust judicial system. In contrast to many of its neighboring countries, Israel has free elections, an independent judiciary, and strong protections for minority groups, including Arab citizens.

### 3. **Security Concerns**
Israel faces significant security threats from various actors, including Hamas, Hezbollah, and hostile neighboring states. Supporters argue that Israel’s military actions and security measures, such as the construction of the security barrier, are necessary for the country’s survival and the protection of its citizens against terrorism.

### 4. **Strategic Ally**
Israel is an important ally to many Western countries, particularly the United States, due to its strategic location in the Middle East. It shares intelligence, military cooperation, and technological innovations, playing a key role in counter-terrorism efforts and regional stability.

### 5. **Peace Efforts**
Despite ongoing conflict, Israel has consistently demonstrated willingness to negotiate for peace. It signed peace treaties with Egypt (1979) and Jordan (1994) and has engaged in multiple rounds of peace talks with the Palestinians, though achieving a final resolution has been elusive.

### 6. **Technological and Economic Achievements**
Israel has become a hub of innovation and technology, often referred to as the “Start-Up Nation.” Its achievements in fields such as agriculture, water conservation, medicine, and cybersecurity have had a global impact. Economically, Israel has a highly developed and diversified economy, contributing significantly to global technological advances.

### 7. **Moral and Ethical Responsibility**
Many supporters of Israel argue that the international community has a moral responsibility to support the Jewish state due to the atrocities faced by Jews throughout history, particularly during the Holocaust. Ensuring Israel’s safety and sovereignty is seen as a way to prevent future persecution of Jewish people.

As issued by the minister for Israeli propaganda.

Can you provide a link top your source, please?

 

[Nwgs2]

It's like the blue tick on twitter, I'm not sure what that is

The blue tick is, or at least was to confirm the poster has been authenticated, usually a famous person etc

 

[Mrs Ten Names]

Hezbollah (or "Hezbollāh," meaning "Party of God" in Arabic) is a Shia Islamist political and militant organization based in Lebanon. It has both a military wing, which is considered a terrorist organization by several countries, and a political wing that holds significant power in Lebanon’s government. The term "anti-Hezbollah" typically refers to opposition to Hezbollah's activities, influence, and ideology, both within Lebanon and internationally.

There are several reasons for anti-Hezbollah sentiment:

### 1. **Terrorist Designation**
Many countries, including the United States, Canada, and much of the European Union, have designated Hezbollah's military wing or the organization as a whole as a terrorist group. This is largely due to its involvement in acts of terrorism, including bombings, assassinations, and attacks against Israeli, Western, and other targets.

### 2. **Lebanese Political Scene**
Hezbollah has a significant influence in Lebanon’s politics, and many Lebanese, especially from non-Shia communities, view this as detrimental. Its armed wing operates outside of the Lebanese military, creating a "state within a state," which many Lebanese citizens oppose, as it undermines Lebanon’s sovereignty and government authority.

### 3. **Ties with Iran**
Hezbollah is closely aligned with Iran and is seen as a proxy for advancing Iranian influence in the region. Its critics, particularly Sunni Arab states like Saudi Arabia and Israel, view Hezbollah's relationship with Iran as a destabilizing factor in the Middle East.

### 4. **Role in Syria**
Hezbollah has played a significant role in the Syrian Civil War, fighting on behalf of the Assad regime. Its involvement, supported by Iran, has been criticized for prolonging the conflict and increasing sectarian tensions in the region.

### 5. **Israel Conflict**
Hezbollah has been in a long-standing conflict with Israel, particularly after the 2006 Lebanon War. Many anti-Hezbollah voices come from those who support Israel or oppose Hezbollah’s anti-Israel activities, including rocket attacks and military confrontations.

In summary, "anti-Hezbollah" sentiment arises from concerns over terrorism, regional instability, Iranian influence, and the group's internal role in Lebanon. Opposition to Hezbollah comes from both regional powers like Israel and Saudi Arabia, as well as internal factions within Lebanon and international actors.

Can you provide a link to your source, please?

Hezbollah were created to oppose the Israeli invasion of Lebanon.

Hezbollah was established by Lebanese clerics primarily to fight the 1982 Israeli invasion of Lebanon.

Hezbollah - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Ergo, no Israeli invasion = no Hezbollah.

 

[ajohn]

I’ve condemned both sides numerous times.

All I’m trying to do with this thread is point out Isreal are just as much the victims as Palestine.

My feelings are much the same but notice which side looses the most, An Israeli feature is you hurt us and we will really hurt you. It's declared policy. You might view this as punishment not solutions.

Look at Israeli attacks on Lebanon and you will find that Palestine is in the background. 1978 and 1982. Last one seems to include changing Lebanon's gov. That has a western ring to it. This is when Hezbollah popped up. Mostly PLO previously. These do enjoy some support in their populations as Hamas does.

What is Palestine. A western creation as a result of post war colonialism. An area was carved up between the UK and France. Previously all sorts that lived there had more or less been happy bunnies. Now in real terms none of the Middle East is really happy with the situation. Some fight. Others want a return to pre 67 boarders. UN actions have not really helped with that aspect but managed it with the strip. Israel carries on in the west bank anyway and nothing happens. The occupied territory laws on that aspect are very clear. They should move out.

LOL The UN is intended to put a stop to all of this sort of things. This should include using their teeth when needed. They do on some countries but generally don't on the main one.

I've not mentioned Jerusalem. Another area with "problems". There was an agreed solution.