If you were God...

[sooey]

Well I've given very deep thought to the notion of what it's all about, and I reckon it's all a load of b*ll*x.
NEXT!

 

[Mikefromlondon]

This thread is simplifying my decision to be both an atheist and a sceptic of science.
Ok I might sound like a luddite here but I did not want the Haldron Collider to be built. If it was an experiment was it one too far? What if our knowledge was wrong and the effect of firing particles at each other had created a chain reaction?
But this simply illustrates my point.

I do not need to pontificate about science or become a particle physicists to find out about creation or the possible nature of GOD.

Even if we do ever find the answer to these questions what actual difference will it make.
Even if GOD stood on the shores of Galilee today everyone from Jews to Christians to Islamics would say oooh look there is 'OUR' GOD we told you he existed now we will kill you all...

Pointless pointless pointless. Even this thread has thrown up insults and accusations , ok fairly mild ones but they would be more severe if you felt the bread in your mouth or the lives of your children were threatened.

What if science proves that evolution and a specific set of circumstances created the world. Do you honestly think every religious zealot would say er OK then,,,.we were wrong?

Not a chance.. Religion is power and control. Science is nothing other than satisfying curiosity.

What matters and ONLY matters is how we are going to live in peace. So lets just scrap the need for a GOD forget the chase for pointless science. Particle physics brought the A bomb. hmmmm yep right now in korea about as welcome as an ice cream cone full of vomit.

Lets just accept the simple things like night and day summer and winter. Forget religion and science and simply live by a moral code which punishes bad behaviour and praises good behaviour.

Lets publicly shame Big business leaders and bankers. Police - NHS - etc etc. Lets see people change their ways and lets see people think holistically about the world.

Lets make a world where there would actually be no need for charities to even exist.

trouble is, it is nice to say forget about religion, God, or sciencitific facts, but i was only 4 when I remember very well and I was still bottle feeding lying in her cradle, i would ask my mum where do we come from, obviously she told me the truth, that we came from heaven! now who would want to argue with that!

 

[JBR]

trouble is, it is nice to say forget about religion, God, or sciencitific facts, but i was only 4 when I remember very well and I was still bottle feeding lying in her cradle, i would ask my mum where do we come from, obviously she told me the truth, that we came from heaven! now who would want to argue with that!

Come on now, we know that's not true.

Everybody knows that storks bring babies.

Ah, yes... but God tells the stork to do it. (Phew, got out of that one.)

 

[Big Tone]

This thread is simplifying my decision to be both an atheist and a sceptic of science.
Ok I might sound like a luddite here but I did not want the Haldron Collider to be built. If it was an experiment was it one too far? What if our knowledge was wrong and the effect of firing particles at each other had created a chain reaction?

This was the case, as you allude to later, with the A bomb. But, as wild and irresponsible as it may have looked to the layman, they did scientific calculations which showed it would collapse on itself. The old image of a lonely mad professor who blows himself up in a lab is not quite how they do things today...

Even if we do ever find the answer to these questions what actual difference will it make.
Even if GOD stood on the shores of Galilee today everyone from Jews to Christians to Islamics would say oooh look there is 'OUR' GOD we told you he existed now we will kill you all.. What if science proves that evolution and a specific set of circumstances created the world. Do you honestly think every religious zealot would say er OK then,,,.we were wrong?

Not a chance.. Religion is power and control...

Sad but true mdf; very true.

What matters and ONLY matters is how we are going to live in peace. So lets just scrap the need for a GOD forget the chase for pointless science. Particle physics brought the A bomb. hmmmm yep right now in korea about as welcome as an ice cream cone full of vomit.

Yes, I see where you are coming from but hold on a minute and see if you agree with me on something. It isn’t what science comes up with which is the danger, it’s to what use we put it. To be more topical for a minute, just lately we have had some close encounters from very large objects nearing our planet. Science can predict what they are, how far away they are, if they are on a collision course for Earth and, using the destructive powers we have, use them for good use to save ourselves. Again, it isn’t the use of science which is bad – far from! It’s the abuse of science! I’m sure you would be glad of an MRI scan or happy to benefit from brain stem research if it saved you our someone you love?

What matters and ONLY matters is how we are going to live in peace. So lets just scrap the need for a GOD forget the chase for pointless science. Particle physics brought the A bomb. hmmmm yep right now in korea about as welcome as an ice cream cone full of vomit.

This is the difficulty I am talking about. What is “pointless science”? The answer is we don’t know because we don’t know what use it could potentially be for us all in the future. There should be absolutely nothing wrong with science research if used for good, but there is much very wrong with using it to harm. e.g. Gunpwder could be used to fire a bullet into a man's heart or excavate coal and precious minerals. It's not the fault of science that some use it for harm!

Lets just accept the simple things like night and day summer and winter. Forget religion and science and simply live by a moral code which punishes bad behaviour and praises good behaviour.

Forget science??? Are you serious? So let’s get rid of that MRI scanner and the plethora of drugs and advancements in surgery etc. Let's go back to the 19th century and forget all that we have invented and achieved? Come on, you cannot be serious...

Lets publicly shame Big business leaders and bankers. Police - NHS - etc etc. Lets see people change their ways and lets see people think holistically about the world.

Lets make a world where there would actually be no need for charities to even exist.

Well I’m on board there, but please - let’s not throw the science baby out with the bathwater eh?

 

[pred]

Mikefromlondon says, "i am kind of agnostic"

Well Mike, on top of being agnostic, I hope you are not a dislexic insomniac, because you could lie awake all night wondering if dog really does exist..

 

[sooey]

He already does, most likely. If you sliced the top of his head off he'd have enough cotton wool to insulate the loft.

 

[mdf290]

Forget science??? Are you serious?

Absolutely not I am a great believer in science and knowledge

What I meant was lets stop exploring science to find out 'the meaning of life' or where we all came from.

I am, all for medical science but there is much much more than one missing link there are billions of missing links if you try to follow anthropological evolution.

As mentioned its simply when we get there what actual difference will it make to the way we interact.

I have yet to hear anyone stopping an argument by saying 'we should not fight they are doing wonderful things with the Haldron Collider' or 'When this Higgs Bosun is detected it will make a huge difference to my weekly shopping bill'

 

[Mikefromlondon]

pred and sooey......wot a laod of goof!

 

[sooey]

 

[Big Tone]

Forget science??? Are you serious?

Absolutely not I am a great believer in science and knowledge

What I meant was lets stop exploring science to find out 'the meaning of life' or where we all came from.

Yeah, "let's stop exploring science" because that will impede progress...

Is this a forum for wan kers...?

 

[joe-90]

No. He's a rugby player.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayne_Kerr

 

[mdf290]

Forget science??? Are you serious?

Absolutely not I am a great believer in science and knowledge

What I meant was lets stop exploring science to find out 'the meaning of life' or where we all came from.

Yeah, "let's stop exploring science" because that will impede progress...

Is this a forum for wan kers...?

So here we are then on the subject of GOD which became GOD vs Science we have someone expressing a view which they are prepared to reinforce with insults proving that neither GOD NOR SCIENCE will achieve world peace.

I rest my case.

However Tone I will elaborate a bit more as who knows maybe your view will soften a little when I explain.

The sad fact is that science is accelerated by war. Man is at his most inventive when trying to apply his mind to warfare. The technological progress of mankind was at its most accelerated when trying to find ways to kill other people.

Huge Drug companies discover cures and then patent them and then shelve the product even though it could save lives because they make more money selling drugs that just help people 'limp' along on long term medication'

Science is no moral beacon to be followed without question.

At the source of everything is mans interaction with man.

Science could find a cure for cancer tommorow but my instinct says that cure would be hushed up and never see the light of day.
Scientists are the same as everyone else and will work for money.

You have a quaint and naive view of the power of science to do good in the world.

What has science really improved over say the existence of a shaker type community?

Non stop media and intrusions into peoples lives spouting propaganda and misinformation.
All scientific advancements come at a price and usually a high financial one or a price to the environment.

Battery cars ffs - I gave up battery cars when I was seven because the batteries didnt last long and were expensive to replace and are a pain to dispose of.

The modern grown up equivalents are an environmental disaster waiting to happen in the scrapyards of the future.

Medical advancement , playing the guilt trip what about advances in medicine routine . . .and if you dont follow science people will die... cheap shot.
The medicines and equipment are there already and more medicines and equipment with the POTENTIAL to save lives could still be invented but instead Doctors throw people on the Liverpool execution Pathway instead.

I woke up and when I smelled the coffee I was shocked.
I am still shocked and Tone you will be too.

 

[chapeau]

Huge Drug companies discover cures and then patent them and then shelve the product even though it could save lives because they make more money selling drugs that just help people 'limp' along on long term medication'

Example please

Science could find a cure for cancer tommorow but my instinct says that cure would be hushed up and never see the light of day.

Your instinct is wrong

The medicines and equipment are there already and more medicines and equipment with the POTENTIAL to save lives could still be invented but instead Doctors throw people on the Liverpool execution Pathway instead.

Most humane thing to do in a lot of cases, should be used more often, except bloody do-gooders complain and stuff it up for the rest of them.

 

[mdf290]

Huge Drug companies discover cures and then patent them and then shelve the product even though it could save lives because they make more money selling drugs that just help people 'limp' along on long term medication'

Example please

Big companies patent anything they can half the time not to release a product on the market but instead to prevent a competitor from releasing or creating something that would affect their marketplace.

Pharma are totally money orientated. They will not produce new meds unless they can get a patent on it and therefore a licence to print money. They could find cures for many more diseases but they will only invest research into the areas with the greatest potential returns.

I cant give you an example because thet would never reach the public domain. An employee can't divulge that. If you search the web you get the other extreme and lots of conspriracy theories backed up with 'try our miracle cure'.

Just wait until April when the PCTs are abolished and the new clinical commisioning groups working with GPS atart to commission medical services for Primary care.
If your illness does not pay what your GP feels is a worthwhile return you wont be able to find anyone within your health landscape to help you out and an appointment will be just a fantasy.

I know how the health landscape works because I used to work in it and had to make exactly those decisions.

For example. I had 10 patients at one of my practices on warfarin so they needed anto coagulant monitoring to ensure they were on the correct dose.
The local PCT paid £9 per month for each patient you tested.

So hang on that means £90 a month to cover my ten patients.
But my nurse costs me £45 an hour and It would be impossible to get every patient in on the same day at the same time so overall it would take more than two hours for my nurse to test all the patients. Add in the follow up administration and it was a simple answer.
We cant run clinics for those patients because they would cost us money so . . they were left to make their way themselves to the local hospitals blood clinic to get tested.

 

[chapeau]

Well the problem is the nurse costs £45 an hour. But that's the NHS for you - public sector waste and indolence is rife from top to bottom.

It's got nothing to do with big pharma being money grabbing capitalist outfits, which of course they are. However, your view of drug discovery and development in big pharma is essentially flawed.