IMF predicting UK the worse performing economy according to the news..

[Ivor Windybottom]

I agree, all parties have been absolutely on board with this scam. Please don't mistake me for a tory fanatic just because I've said the problem originated with a labour chancellor/PM.

My point is that, regardless of their opinions, even if the tories or lib dems had wanted to manage the country responsibly (and I've no idea whether they wanted to) then they couldn't have done it. Whatever party had won power in 2010, they couldn't have reversed it - the people were addicted to the massive public spending with taxes that weren't high enough to pay for it all. Anyone who stopped the freebies would have been booted out at the next election or possibly before as a result of party rebellions or civil unrest.

The Brown/Blair years wrecked this country. They'd never lasted more than one term before, mainly due to the high taxes needed to fund the cost of socialism. So they came up with a new idea - borrow & spend.

If any chancellor reduced the deficit to zero next week, either by taxes or cuts, there'd be mass rioting.

We've knocked down lots of factories and replaced them with houses due to the runaway house prices, so we have no industry left.

The country's irreversibly knackered. I can't see how it could end well from here.

 

[ajohn]

Brown had the banking crisis problem. A problem with political opinion = forget the factors that caused the problem.

Now power is a problem. More debt. Paid back a different way - increased power prices over what they could be in the future. Some covid debt aspects are the same.

Ukraine - it seems no one could forecast various commodity price inflation when Russian exports were ruled out. Really. No matter, the decision has been made.

 

[ajohn]

The Brown/Blair years wrecked this country. They'd never lasted more than one term before, mainly due to the high taxes needed to fund the cost of socialism. So they came up with a new idea - borrow & spend.

That is essentially garbage.

 

[cwhaley]

My point is that, regardless of their opinions, even if the tories or lib dems had wanted to manage the country responsibly (and I've no idea whether they wanted to) then they couldn't have done it. Whatever party had won power in 2010, they couldn't have reversed it - the people were addicted to the massive public spending with taxes that weren't high enough to pay for it all. Anyone who stopped the freebies would have been booted out at the next election or possibly before as a result of party rebellions or civil unrest.

The Brown/Blair years wrecked this country. They'd never lasted more than one term before, mainly due to the high taxes needed to fund the cost of socialism. So they came up with a new idea - borrow & spend.

If any chancellor reduced the deficit to zero next week, either by taxes or cuts, there'd be mass rioting.

We've knocked down lots of factories and replaced them with houses due to the runaway house prices, so we have no industry left.

The country's irreversibly knackered. I can't see how it could end well from here.

I do agree with your sentiment re the economy. Our economy is sadly one based on moving money around for a fee (I'm quoting Benn there) -- our industries in 'making things' have been drastically cut back. While we still do have industries facing growth (two manufacturing industries local to me seeing year-on-year expansion), that growth needs to be stepped up if we're to regain lost relevance on the world stage.

However... public spending has stagnated for so long that many services are barely alive. We're supposedly a strong and wealthy nation, so all the 'massive public spending' is - for me - warranted and justified.

The current demands for wage increases are totally justified and I'm close to several people who have been on strike. My wife is a top-of-her-band nurse and after nearly 9 years together, we now have a son. Bills/costs/the mortgage go up beyond our control. If the government want us to reproduce and raise the next generation successfully, it's their responsibility to ensure we receive a fair wage.

We have few luxuries and live within our means.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

The fact is, regardless of what's fair and whatever rights and wrongs, the government is receiving vastly less in taxes than it spends, and has done ever since Blair and Brown sent us down this route.

A government one day needs to either cut spending or raise taxes, or both. But there isn't an easy way out that means that everyone's going to be happy. There aren't any easy ways out of this mess, and nobody's confronting it as it would be electoral suicide, so the result will be that we will crash head first into the wall that we know we're heading towards.

We've been living in an imaginary dreamland, spending money we simply don't have. We're a poor country that just hasn't realised it yet.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

That is essentially garbage.

Yes, well done for that insightful in-depth economic knowledge. You appear to be suffering from blind denial of reality.

Brown wrecked the country long before 2008. That was not some random weather event that blew in from some foreign land, it was a crisis that originated as much here as anywhere else.

 

[Vinty]

we are an importing nation

I agree, the problem is, we are importing too many of the wrong types.

 

[blup]

Brownonomics wasn’t worried by private debt as long as we could borrow our way out of it

 

[Vinty]

Well that’s what happens when you put The French in charge

Likely to
End up with a scoundrel running it

Blimey she was involved and found guilty in a 335 million £ fiddle

Than employed by the EU central bank

100% correct, if you are part of the in crowd(euphemism for the estabishment) you can fiddle, start illegal wars and generally have a good time.
They scratch each others backs and cover up when one of their own gets into trouble.

That is why the likes of Tony Blair are treated like a statesmen rather than common war criminals.

Britain today, has unfortunately been infected with the political virus of "European values".

 

[gant]

Ellal and Notchy like "European values"

 

[ajohn]

You appear to be suffering from blind denial of reality.

Really try this page

UK National Debt - Current, Recent, Historical 2018_2028Charts Tables

www.ukpublicspending.co.uk

Also tell me what other factors need to be considered when these aspects are shown as a % of GDP.

Why does this page show a large shift in manufacture comparing 1950 with 2016. What caused the change?

How has growth changed over time?

Historians have found that until the Industrial Revolution, global living standards were essentially flat.

www.bankofengland.co.uk

Tongue in cheek. This one going on slope shows that labour managed a better increase in GDP, A tricky thing to look into. Covers the period in the EU as well.

Real Gross Domestic Product for United Kingdom

Graph and download economic data for Real Gross Domestic Product for United Kingdom (CLVMNACSCAB1GQUK) from Q1 1975 to Q3 2020 about United Kingdom, real, and GDP.

fred.stlouisfed.org

 

[noseall]

Ellal and Notchy like "European values"

Better than the corrupt, greedy bastard Tory/Brexer garbage the UK is having to endure presently.

 

[ajohn]

2% pay rise, 2% inflation - what happens to GDP?

 

[Dork Lard]

WOW. Diynot tackles 'economics' !

 

[carmanmemoranda]

The fact is, regardless of what's fair and whatever rights and wrongs, the government is receiving vastly less in taxes than it spends, and has done ever since Blair and Brown sent us down this route.

A government one day needs to either cut spending or raise taxes, or both. But there isn't an easy way out that means that everyone's going to be happy. There aren't any easy ways out of this mess, and nobody's confronting it as it would be electoral suicide, so the result will be that we will crash head first into the wall that we know we're heading towards.

We've been living in an imaginary dreamland, spending money we simply don't have. We're a poor country that just hasn't realised it yet.

Except it was started by Thatcher, a Tory.

She was the 1 who sold off council houses, got rid of industry and focussed on moving money