Is immigration good or bad ?

[SammyInnit]

Comment ignored as it does not add to the discussion.


They could be students. They could be retired. They could be dependents of other EU citizens who are actively employed. They could be dependents of UK citizens. Any bare statistic can be interpreted to suit your argument.


Who said they would? Although EU students at Uni's are 'being trained'.


It may be less than your figure:
https://fullfact.org/immigration/immigration-and-nhs-staff/
But we need to look at the more detailed data. Can we really hope to manage the NHS with say 10% fewer doctors? That is 10,600 fewer doctors! (and 11,000 fewer nurses BTW)
Of course these shortfalls could be made up by recruiting non-EU doctors, but they are still immigrants! So it will not affect the overall migration statistics!
Therefore the immigration based Brexit motive is self-defeating!


I do not think so. One may be, say 55 years old and consider oneself retired, but statistically speaking you are still vocationally active.
Similarly, one may be 25 years old dependent on a UK citizen, considered statistically as active, but personally you may be retired.
How does the government determine which EU citizens are retired? They do not pay them a pension, etc.

Did you even bother to look at the statistics I cited?

 

[Notch7]

Read my words!

Read my words:

you are still ducking out from an answer.........

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

Are you sure we really need more inward migration to fill jobs?

Did you even bother to look at the statistics I cited?

What these statistics should not be used for, and why
These statistics do not measure stocks or flows of recent migrants to the UK, because they include people resident in the UK for many years (many of whom will now be UK nationals) as well as more recent arrivals. This, along with a range of other factors, means that net changes in the number of non-UK workers in the UK cannot be directly compared with long-term net migration for non-UK nationals.

Statistics on international migration to the UK, including a summary of migration for work are published separately

Your reference.

Perhaps if you made an argument, (not one based on notch's troll-like comments) instead of producing bare statistics, we could have a more meaningful discussion.

 

[Notch7]

issues, that you do have.

Do you live in Melton Mowbray?

I expect you winter in Gili Motang

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

Read my words:

you are still ducking out from an answer.........

The reason is stated in my comment.
If you refuse to accept that reason, or disagree with it, then try explaining why you disagree, instead of making biased assumptions.
Repeated for you:

That is like saying "how many years do you think growth in GDP is sustainable"
or "how many years do you think inflation is sustainable".
It is far too simplistic a question and is much more "nuanced".

I have also commented on my view on migration in another post. If you have not read it, or do not understand it, do not blame me.

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

Do you live in Melton Mowbray?

I expect you winter in Gili Motang

Typical nonsense from the forum troll.

 

[SammyInnit]

Your reference.

Perhaps if you made an argument, (not one based on notch's troll-like comments) instead of producing bare statistics, we could have a more meaningful discussion.

So basically you're going to move the goal posts and no statistic I cite is good enough so your point cannot be disputed?

The long answer is you're deceitful and intellectually dishonest, relying on fallacies and get out clauses that have no baring over simple opinion.

The short is you're a bit of a dickhead.

 

[Notch7]

The long answer is you're deceitful and intellectually dishonest, relying on fallacies and get out clauses that have no baring over simple opinion.

Wannabe down to a Tee.

Didnt take you long to suss him out

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

So basically you're going to move the goal posts and no statistic I cite is good enough so your point cannot be disputed?

The long answer is you're deceitful and intellectually dishonest, relying on fallacies and get out clauses that have no baring over simple opinion.

The short is you're a bit of a dickhead.

Well reasoned argument.

 

[SammyInnit]

Well reasoned argument.

It's not an argument. It's an observation. The fact you can't differentiate either serves as my argument.

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

It's not an argument. It's an observation. The fact you can't differentiate either serves as my argument.

As your 'observation' was so easily discredited, it did not take you long to resort to abuse.

Perhaps it is this recent report that fuels your aggression:

Polls that ask people how they would vote now in response to the question that appeared on the ballot paper in June 2016 have, in fact, been relatively few and far between.

But those that have been conducted suggest there may have been a small swing in favour of Remain.
The four most recent readings - taken by BMG Research and Survation between November and January - have, on average, once the 8% who said "don't know" are left to one side, put Remain on 52% and Leave on 48%.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43336351

 

[SammyInnit]

As your 'observation' was so easily discredited, it did not take you long to resort to abuse.

Keep typing mate

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

Keep typing mate

No need. Your lack of courtesy and reasoned argument is sufficient.
Additionally your first comment on this issue was nonsense:

Only 81.2% if EU nationals in the UK are employed. This is a greater figure that UK nationals however it's a much smaller amount of the overall population.

How can a percentage of one statistic be 'overall' more or less, than another percentage?
A percentage of one group of economically active compared to the population is in comparison to another percentage of a different group of economically active compared to that other population.
You cannot change that statistic, or pretend that one is in relation to the overall population, whereas the other is not.

 

[SirGalahad]

The NHS would be crippled if it wasn't for foreign born and trained doctors taking up posts in those specialities like Emergency Medicine or in areas where UK born doctors choose not to work in.

Where immigration may have had a detrimental effect is those areas that are low skilled by depressing wages, however an externality of this is that is has lead to increased demand for housing and as so much of our wealth is tied into our capital housing stock it has been a win for landlords and land owners.

 

[SirGalahad]

My statement won't account for job type but I'm confident in saying empty doctor and nurse position wouldn't remain so for long.

Based on what? Finger in the air analysis?