Is immigration good or bad ?

[SammyInnit]

Housebuilding needs to increase exponentially then

Won't happen as long as land value increases. It's paying better than the rate of interest. I think I read last year the population grew by over half a million people. Only half that amount of 'homes' were built in the same period.

I use the term home loosely. They're often shoeboxes I could never call a home.

 

[Notch7]

Of course. All the UK government need do is implement their own restrictions.
I don't make the EU rules. If you want free trade you need to obey the rules that go with it.
All we need is a government with a back bone.

Not a question of backbone, the Eu said no

His plan for an emergency brake on numbers ran into a brick wall. “No way. Never,” Merkel is said to have told the then British prime minister at a bilateral meeting in October 2014. “I would never agree to it, you can’t have numerical limits.”

What you are saying is: we need to cherry pick.

how many years would you think free movement is sustainable?

 

[SammyInnit]

.
Notch demonstrates yet again that he is incapable of understanding simple comments.
The word "potential" is very different from the word "successful".

You should look up synonyms for the word potential.

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

Only 81.2% if EU nationals in the UK are employed. This is a greater figure that UK nationals however it's a much smaller amount of the overall population.

You also need to look at the demographics of those employed/unemployed.
For instance, the EU citizens employed tend to be the younger generation, which is important for certain sectors of our economy.
There are of course very few retired EU citizens, which also is important for our economy, and our indigenous retired population.

My statement won't account for job type but I'm confident in saying empty doctor and nurse position wouldn't remain so for long.

How long does it take to train nurses, doctors, vets, etc?
Or did you meant that those positions will be filled by non-EU citizens?

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

Won't happen as long as land value increases. It's paying better than the rate of interest. I think I read last year the population grew by over half a million people. Only half that amount of 'homes' were built in the same period.

I use the term home loosely. They're often shoeboxes I could never call a home.

I think you are in danger of building an argument on one of notch's troll-like comments.

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

You should look up synonyms for the word potential.

When coupled with "candidates"?
Obviously only one candidate can be successful for one post, irrespective of how many potential candidates there are!

I think you are in danger of behaving like notch and intentionally misconstruing my comments.

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

how many years would you think free movement is sustainable?

That is like saying "how many years do you think growth in GDP is sustainable"
or "how many years do you think inflation is sustainable".
It is far too simplistic a question and is much more "nuanced".

 

[SammyInnit]

wannabeDIY - do you always base your arguments on fallacies or just when you have to ignore the numbers?

I wasn't building an argument. I was showing the numbers given by the ONS and relaying the same sentiment echoed by those in the media and the NHS along with the figures that show (I don't have to hand) NHS EU staff are leaving.

This means there's a void in the NHS and while EU nationals remain unemployed in the UK to the tune of 18.8% it's a relatively fair assumption that they are not doctors and nurses.

Why would the UK be in the game of training EU nationals in healthcare when we have an an unemployment rate of around 25% just within the UK national stastic?

It's not fair to say it's because UK nationals won't do the work because EU nationals only account for around 7% of the NHS staff number. (Again I don't have it to hand but it can be easily found via the ONS).

Those who are retired are completely unaccounted for.

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

wannabeDIY - do you always base your arguments on fallacies or just when you have to ignore the numbers?

Comment ignored as it does not add to the discussion.

I wasn't building an argument. I was showing the numbers given by the ONS and relaying the same sentiment echoed by those in the media and the NHS along with the figures that show (I don't have to hand) NHS EU staff are leaving.

This means there's a void in the NHS and while EU nationals remain unemployed in the UK to the tune of 18.8% it's a relatively fair assumption that they are not doctors and nurses.

They could be students. They could be retired. They could be dependents of other EU citizens who are actively employed. They could be dependents of UK citizens. Any bare statistic can be interpreted to suit your argument.

Why would the UK be in the game of training EU nationals in healthcare when we have an an unemployment rate of around 25% just within the UK national stastic?

Who said they would? Although EU students at Uni's are 'being trained'.

It's not fair to say it's because UK nationals won't do the work because EU nationals only account for around 7% of the NHS staff number. (Again I don't have it to hand but it can be easily found via the ONS).

It may be less than your figure:

EU immigrants make up about 5% of English NHS staff and about 5% of the English population, according to the best available data. Across the UK, EU immigrants make up 10% of registered doctors and 4% of registered nurses. Immigrants from outside the EU make up larger proportions. Restrictions on non-EU immigrants have affected NHS recruitment, suggesting that the same could happen if there were limits on EU immigration.

https://fullfact.org/immigration/immigration-and-nhs-staff/
But we need to look at the more detailed data. Can we really hope to manage the NHS with say 10% fewer doctors? That is 10,600 fewer doctors! (and 11,000 fewer nurses BTW)
Of course these shortfalls could be made up by recruiting non-EU doctors, but they are still immigrants! So it will not affect the overall migration statistics!
Therefore the immigration based Brexit motive is self-defeating!

Those who are retired are completely unaccounted for.

I do not think so. One may be, say 55 years old and consider oneself retired, but statistically speaking you are still vocationally active.
Similarly, one may be 25 years old dependent on a UK citizen, considered statistically as active, but personally you may be retired.
How does the government determine which EU citizens are retired? They do not pay them a pension, etc.

 

[Notch7]

wannabeDIY - do you always base your arguments on fallacies or just when you have to ignore the numbers?

His arguments are always based on fallacies. When found out, he will then say: 'the distinction is blurred', or 'its more nuanced than that'. When that doesnt work, he will keep arguing pantomine style and despite being proved wrong will always say he is correct. Oh and he gets his mate the mod to lock threads

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

His arguments are always based on fallacies. When found out, he will then say: 'the distinction is blurred', or 'its more nuanced than that'. When that doesnt work, he will keep arguing pantomine style and despite being proved wrong will always say he is correct. Oh and he gets his mate the mod to lock threads

Notch has resorted to trolling again.
But rarely do his comments add to the discussion.
You will notice that notch addresses the one comment of sammyinnit, that does not add to the discussion.

 

[Notch7]

That is like saying "how many years do you think growth in GDP is sustainable"
or "how many years do you think inflation is sustainable".
It is far too simplistic a question and is much more "nuanced".

You mean you are ducking out from giving an answer

 

[Notch7]

His arguments are always based on fallacies. When found out, he will then say: 'the distinction is blurred', or 'its more nuanced than that'. When that doesnt work, he will keep arguing pantomine style and despite being proved wrong will always say he is correct. Oh and he gets his mate the mod to lock threads

Oh, I forgot to add, he will resort to saying you are a troll

Despite the fact the real troll on here is Himagin, Wannabe etal

Ask him why Doggit and Mightymam left

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

You mean you are ducking out from giving an answer

Read my words!

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

Ask him why Doggit and Mightymam left

Obviously you have a view of what happened before you arrived on the scene, gained from comments by doggit, who openly admitted he was not aware of mightyblob leaving, or that he had had any contact with mightyblob.
So your view is based on erroneous untenable rumour.
That figures why you hold the views on other issues, that you do have.