Larger rear extension - Neighbour Consultation

[cdbe]

Hi, we wish to build the 6m deep rear extension illustrated above under PD. We are keen to get going ASAP. Initial informal discussion with our attached neighbours suggests they may object (at the time they were considering moving (but now aren't) and said if they were then they wouldn't object - as the precedent would add potential value to their house - if they didn't move they wouldn't be too happy about the effect on their "view" from their bay window) and would probably object.

My question is would this be considered relevant by the Council (and what other relevant objections could their be)? I don't really understand the phrase "loss of amenity" or how much of it has to be lost before the council refuse permission. Also as part of the consultation do we get the opportunity to agree amendments to the design to address valid objections raised or do they just say yes or no, and can we submit a revised application?

I've only just done the drawings and am preparing to discuss with our neighbours so would like to be as clued up as possible. I suspect they may want us to compromise on distance to boundary (it's right up there at the moment) but I'd prefer not to unless it's the sort of thing the council may "suggest" if they get involved - in which case it would be better offered now?

Additional info: the gardens are large - there is another 15m beyond the extension, the ground rises up from the houses so the extension will sit quite low, I have minimised the eaves and ridge heights as much as possible, the orientation means their house/garden won't be overshadowed, they rarely use the garden, proposal fully meets all other PD requirements.

I also have drawings for plan B to show them (out 3m with no regard to minimising eaves/ridge height ) because I suspect they may think that if we can't have 6m we won't do anything.

I'm hoping we can reach agreement, they are nice people but I just think they don't like change and would object for this reason rather than anything specific about the extension.

Any advice or suggestions on how we can get this to work are greatly appreciated.

 

[James Martin]

Go for NCS. I don't think that any neighbours objections will make a jot of difference. Just make sure that the eaves, and ridge height comply, and that that guttering is completly on your side of the boundry. You will have to have a party wall agreement though.

 

[^woody^]

Yes that will impact on the bay, particularly that side window, and it would be relevant. But you won't know unless you apply.

 

[tony1851]

In the Prior Notification scheme, if any neighbour objects, the council then considers the proposal only in terms of the afffect on the amenity of any adjoining owners (they don't look at it unless someone complains). 'Amenity' in this context will probably only concern overshadowing and loss of light.
If your neighbour objects, it is likely the council will apply their own policy guidelines on rear extensions in coming to a decision on amenity. Most councils restrict rear extensions to a specific distance from the rear wall, usually around 3m or so.

 

[Nakajo]

Incidentally, I see no harm in mentioning the full extent of your neighbour consultations in your prior notification application

 

[Nige F]

Re: overshadowing and loss of light. Due to the orientation of your houses I personally would rather you had a flat roof - because of the 6m long shadow cast by the roof. Irrespective of low pitched tiles/flatties out of fashion etc. Just my personal opinion if I was your neighbour

 

[JP_]

their view from the bay is of your garden over the low fence .... so, they will be upset that they can't look into your garden. OK....
Maybe better to put in full planning? Then, if the only objection is the neighbour, then you might have more chance? Maybe.

 

[cdbe]

Thanks all, I believe PP would indeed limit it to 3m (a search of nearby applications shows that nothing over 3m has ever been allowed). I think in reality our PD fallback of 3m out x 3m at the eaves (we would need to go higher than the 6m proposal as it would become a knockthrough to the main house to achieve the space we want and we'd have to match the higher ceiling height - 6m would be a separate room so we could manage a lower ceiling height) would have a similar impact.
Regarding party wall, is that because the footings would encroach into their side? I think with the boundary fence, a small retainer and some aco drain I'll need to put in due to higher adjacent ground that they will be fully on our side. I believe we should have had one when I put the steels in for the chimney breasts last year but they didn't raise it - once they'd recovered from the shock of seeing the small scaffold I'd put in the corner next to the bay to hoist the steel up and realising that it wasn't to build an extension they were fine with it!
I will include a record of all my discussions in the submission.
My student son, who is drawing the pictures, also gave me a sunlight massing model (ignore the second storey) which appears to show limited overshadowing.

It's true that all they will loose is the view into our garden over a 4' fence!

 

[JP_]

Under PD you won't get a roof higher than 4m - my PD application was rejected (the council did not even put it up on the planning site) because I tried to sneak in a higher roof.

There is also that 45 degree view from window "rule" that might come up - the argument being, at the moment they see sky, but they will then only see a brick wall. They'd have every right to be annoyed by that.

 

[cdbe]

I don't want a roof over 4m, if we come out 6m I'm aiming for 2.5 eaves and 3.5 ridge, if we have to fall back to 3m (in which case we would knock through and create one room combining the extension with existing kitchen and dining room and would need the extension higher, within the rules, to match existing ceiling height, possibly make room for steels and make it easier to insulate).

Obviously there will be some impact on our neighbours view but the difference between a 3m extension with 3m eaves which they can't stop and a lower 6m extension with 2.5m eaves that due to the rising ground will, at its outer end, have eaves that appear not much higher that a 6' fence is not that great. (See I have no problems convincing myself but that doesn't get me anywhere!).

 

[JP_]

ah, sorry, I misread the previous post.

 

[JP_]

Did you do the drawings yourself? What software did you use?

I ended up using free room planning software, Sweet Home 3D, but the external elevations looks a bit botched with that (because they are!). Although, I think I got away with it.... although the council have not added the drawings to the site yet....

 

[cdbe]

Hi, my son is an architecture student and he did the drawings, I don't know what software but I know he struggled to get the "student version" watermark off and he can't figure out why the front face of the extension roof looks off centre. I think the actual requirements for a PD submission are quite basic - plan view, basic elevations existing and proposed, an OS extract and information about sizes and materials. The 3D ones are more to help my neighbours visualise it.

 

[wessex101]

I think you are placing too much trust in the shading/loss of daylight argument.

A 6 metre deep extension close to the boundary will be massively overbearing for the neighbour and a huge loss of visual amenity, you are almost building a new bungalow in the back garden. The photo illustrates it quite well from your side of the fence, at present there is a pleasant outlook over gardens with trees in the near distance....imagine that photo with a 3.5m tall 6m deep building in the way. If your neighbour raises an objection I would be very surprised if the Planners accept your prior notification application.

No harm in trying but I wouldn't hold your breath. Good luck all the same.

 

[cdbe]

Thanks, that's a very fair point and gives me an idea of what "Amenity" means in this context. In my defence I would say that their view over my garden isn't quite as appealing (unless you're into garages, trailers, caravans and prefab garages!) and is probably why they keep the curtain facing us permenantly closed!