Larger rear extension - Neighbour Consultation

[cdbe]

Well, after studying my 6m out, 2.5m high plank of wood he's been round to say he will object. I've told him we'll apply anyway, (up to the boundary with a taller eaves and roof height than offered - in case that gives us a bit of wiggle room with the council) but if it gets rejected we'll be extending out 3m to the absolute limits of PD together with a 7m x 2.5m x 2.5m high (plus the extra because the ground slopes up) garden room along the boundary. Far from ideal but as the extra space is primarily for our two teenagers and friends it will do for us if it has to. In my NCS description I will (for my neighbours benefit and extremely politely) include full details of the alternative proposal, making it clear that it's all PD with no right to object. I will state my willingness to work with all parties to achieve something acceptable. The council will see this and hopefully agree that Plan A isn't the worst that could happen, or knowing my luck interpret it as a veiled threat and start sharpening their claws! Sadly whatever happens our neighbours and us are now definitely off each others Christmas lists!

 

[Nakajo]

I do like what you've done with your garden. Without going through the whole thread, presumably your neighbour objects principally to the height and the proximity. So the choice for your neighbour is a (PD compliant) shorter depth extension, to the maximum allowable height along the boundary, or a (NCS compliant) deeper extension, with a ridge set a little further from the boundary, and slightly lower eaves. If I was your neighbour, I would opt for the latter.

 

[cdbe]

Yes, pretty much as above plus a large garden room which will extend from (but not touch) the 3m extension and run some 7m up the garden along the fence line, 2.5m tall and (if my understanding of the PD rules relating to sloping ground is correct) getting relatively taller as the ground slopes down to the house, albeit with a flat roof.

The garden is a bit muddy! That's just the lower part, there is another large lawned section higher up that's much better (after 100m of land drainage and much associated works). We bought the house in the summer with lovely manicured lawns from a little old lady who never went outside - we moved in in the winter, the kids went out to play and sank ankle deep in liquid mud. It just sits on impermeable clay that's laced with ancient, blocked clay french drains that don't appear to go anywhere. Whatever we end up building will certainly need plenty of drainage. The property actually consists of two plots of land - the original house and back garden and a second plot further back which now is incorporated into the back gardens. These were originally the edges of a large marshy raised field owned by the council until given to the owners of the houses along the road some 30 years ago. When I bought the house and found out about this I was pleasantly surprised by the apparent generosity of the council - I now realise that it was just a way of passing on the drainage problems.

Getting back to our neighbours, I now anticipate a game of "cut off your nose to spite your face" as we propose something not as good for us and far worse for them and they challenge us to do it rather than backing down. I hope that when they raise their objections and the planners get involved a bit of common sense will come into play and they will consider that this is government policy and if we had a different set of neighbours we would be building now instead of arguing about it.

 

[Nakajo]

You're clearly unfamiliar with local planning authorities.

 

[tony1851]

WHAT!!!!!! Well that made me spit my cornflakes all over my laptop. Fees are tight enough as it is, now we're expected to do it for free? I hope that trend doesn't catch on down here.

Contrast the architectural profession with the law where, win or lose, the barister still gets paid.

 

[cdbe]

You're clearly unfamiliar with local planning authorities.

Yes. Unfortunately absolutely clueless, which is why I wanted to take advantage of the government's Larger Rear Extensions scheme.

 

[Sid1968]

Larger rear extension application is considered differently to a full or householder planning application.
Once the application is validated the council inform the neighbours either side of your property and wait 21 days and if no objections then it is approved between 6 to 8 weeks.
During the consultation period the PP officer does not carry out a site visit and also does not look at it if the ameneties are effected.
Under full planning max length of 4m ( terraced and semi detached) would be considered unless you have special circumstances. Also the application is considered from the local planning framework guidance.

My advise would be if neighbours have no issues then submit larger rear extension application otherwise yur JUST wastin your time ( no fee for this application)

 

[cdbe]

Thanks, unfortunately the neighbours have said they will object. We are going to submit the PD NCS application, explain in the description that our neighbours have suggested they may object and therefore include brief details of our fall back scheme - largest possible 3m extension plus large garden room up the boundary. As we are now past the "friendly discussion" stage with our neighbours they will at least see (as the council will send the description to them) that we can build something far "worse" under PD with no right of veto.

 

[Sid1968]

Do what size are you going to submit??

 

[cdbe]

It's 6m X 6m like this:

or 6m X 3m plus 7m X 2.5m garden room like this:

 

[Sid1968]

Ok

When you say that yur going to submit PD NCS
Do you mean permitted development Neighbour Consultation Scheme??

 

[cdbe]

Hi, that's correct. Our neighbours have said they don't want to see a 6m long brick wall when they look out of the bay window at the back of their house and will object to our application, despite our efforts to "minimise" any impact - set back from the boundary, have an eaves height of less than 2.5m, install a taller boundary fence (which would hide most of the wall). We've now submitted the application based on the first drawing above. We've included details of our alternative proposal i.e the second drawing and while the council will not have any interest in in this they are obliged to send it to our neighbours so they will be fully aware of all our options available to us within what in my opinion are some fairly idiotic rules.

 

[Sid1968]

Larger extension and Neighbour Consultation is the same application

If neighbours objectin dont bother!!

 

[cdbe]

Thanks, we've submitted now. Maybe our neighbours will reconsider on reflection, maybe the planning officer will side with us, or if not perhaps suggest something that would work that we haven't thought of - either way it's cost us nothing and we have nothing to lose. I am wondering whether it's worth spending the £80 and applying in parallel for a LDC for the 3m extension and garden room as I think my neighbours would probably think I'm trying it on by claiming I could build that without any "approvals".

 

[JP_]

if they object, just go full planning.
I put my plans in, the plans were accepted! Cost me £172 application, plus £10 to get a block plan via Planning Portal to use. Even if the neighbours don't like it, it may still get approved on the grounds that it is a perfectly acceptable extension.

Anything right on a boundary will always be a bit iffy though. I know I certainly would not want to look out at a brick wall. What is the 45 degree "rule". That was mentioned to me by a builder one. That can stop it....

This may be relevant..
https://forum.buildhub.org.uk/topic/3181-45-degree-rule/