Only seen genuine Siemens electricians do that. The firm lost a lot of money when they had to return and do the job twice. However the noise was quite a indicator to the error so in real terms very quickly electricians should learn. As to if LABC inspectors will pick up on such faults where done by DIY people I don't know.
I was attempting to respond to your apparent belief that 'independence' was very rare, and was only citing myself as an example of a very large group of people who have no ties or allegiances to anyone or any organisation, and therefore provide services/opinions/advice which seems to me to be as close to 'independent' as anything could be. Maybe our definitions of 'independent' differ?
Indeed, one can but presume that they were satisfied that there is such a need, and one can but hope that they reached that conclusion on the basis of sound (and 'independent') expert opinion/advice. Don't forget that this discussion started because you indicated or suggested that the LFB's investigation with seemingly started all this had been conducted in collaboration with a manufacturer of CUs.
Indeed, that's what matters - but, to be honest, when people talk about 'independent' is this context, I imagine that what they are usually really thinking about is 'impartial'. I suppose the point is that, whilst it is perfectly possible for a non-independent person to be impartial, there will 'always be doubts' in some people's minds - whereas if one is totally independent, then there is little of importance that one could be 'partial' about.
In my experience, those who claim to be independent are rarely impartial, sometimes because they are a one-man-band with limited experience, sometimes because of their source of funding. No doubt they believe themselves to be truly impartial, but they aren't. As a general rule, I would much rather deal with someone who was open enough to declare his/her interests that someone who claimed to be independent.
Given that we are talking about individuals ('experts'), I suppose they are all 'one-man-bands' but I don't really understand why/how either that or 'limited experience' (which could well render them unsuitable for the 'expert' role) would or could affect impartiality.
I'm starting to wonder whether the difficulty in this discussion arises because of a fundamental difference between the fields in which we have operated and the situations we are used to seeing. If I am asked (and paid) to give "an independent opinion about XYZ" it is almost invariably because the client genuinely wants to know my opinion (often to aid in decision making). My opinion may, of course, be wrong and/or different from the opinions of others, but I don't really see how it could be 'partial' (and don't really know what that would mean in most cases). I might 'err on the side of caution' in the interests of whoever was paying my for my opinion but, if I did that, I would explain that to the client.
The experts in a committee might (like myself) represent large organisations, in which case they can be impartial but are not independent. The independents tend to be one-man consultancies whose experience is limited because they cannot draw on the resources of a large organisation.
Maybe, but I still don't understand why not being able to 'draw on the resources of a large organisation' could possibly make one any less 'impartial' - if anything, one would expect the opposite!
Ah, I forgot, you already know everything!
I think that really is a bit unfair! People come to me for my personal opinion, based on my knowledge and skills (such as they are) - just as if I were a surveyor, a mechanic undertaking a pre-purchase inspection or even, in some senses, an electrician undertaking an EICR. Given that I (and people like me) am neither infallible nor (despite what you suggest!) omniscient, it is not unusual for clients to obtain more than one such 'personal opinion' so that they can 'compare and contrast them' - but the 'resources of a large organisation' are not usually relevant to the formulations of any of those individual personal opinions.Ah, I forgot, you already know everything!
In such a context, that would obviously be true. ... and it also illustrates the fact that being a member of a large organisation is not the only way of 'ongoing education'.
I still don't really understand, and it's a little odd that it's coming from you, since you are the one and only person in this forum who has a fair degree of insight into the nature of my background and work! My personal opinion is based on my education (which never ends) and my experience (and my ability to consult reference materials when needed). What 'resources of a large organisation' did you have in mind? If you are talking about seeking the views of other people in the organisation, then what I ended up with would not really be my 'personal opinion', would it - and people I work for generally want, for better or for worse, my personal opinion (maybe in addition to the personal opinions of others), rather than a collage of the opinions of various people. If I don't feel able/competent to give a personal opinion a particular matter, then I won't - I will not present someone else's opinion as being mine.
Well, you speak of your ongoing education, which presumably doesn't come from nowhere, you frequently ask questions here, you consult IET guidance... Granted, all these examples are available to you as an individual so perhaps are poor examples. In my case, during the latter stages of my career I could call on advice on materials, product standards, product applications, intellectual property, and all the other things that a company of over 100 000 people get involved with. Conversely I'm aware of individuals who are unwittingly biased by their narrowness of experience. They have of course as much right to their opinions as anyone else, the problem comes when someone takes their advice without considering how meaningful it is.
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