Not nice.

[ColJack]

have you seen what they do to crabs?
they clamp them on a conveyor whilst alive and then use something similar to a router to saw off their legs leaving just the torso which is then dumped and left to die.

or if sold whole, they ( along with lobster ) are plunged into boiling water.. you really think that's fast?

fish are suffocated if they are lucky, or gutted alive if they are one of the first ones out of the net..

cows, sheep and pigs all have their throats slit and choke on their own blood as they bleed out. Ok so most of the time they are unconcious but they still die relatively slowly..

a great deal of medical advances that are taken for granted these days were made by research carried out on various animals..

If they find a cure for alzheimers by studying the brains of a few hundred whales, would you refuse it if you got the disease?

 

[ajstoneservices]

To take your points one by one :
1. You're absolutely right. You must have your own view of what you consider cruel or necessary. You also have an absolute right to object to any practices. Similarly, I have a right to condone/accept/ignore/understand those practices.

2. Fish killed quickly? I think not, or perhaps after being trapped for hours even days in nets/pots, etc. Apart from that, you're not seriously going to tell me that you question/interrogate the supply chain of all meat and fish that you eat. In this country and abroad?

3. Interpretation? Hmm, well the language used in the film is certainly theatrical. Interpretation as to its necessity, etc. How else do you kill a whale?

4. The film could have been less one-sided, less prejudicial, using less emotive language. Perhaps filmed by an independent, non-biased organisation.

5. The film seeks to prevent some people from eating what they want or need. Doesn't that immediately suggest that they will eat something else, perhaps depriving others of that food?
Also, the money could be better spent on relieving hunger elsewhere.

To answer your points.

1) I accept that we all have that “right” in the same way that we all have a right to find it acceptable to inflict pain and suffering on any living thing. Some of us of course draw a line at what they find acceptable earlier than others. If we didn’t…….. well it’s obvious isn’t it.

2) I’m struggling to see how you can justify the way in which whales are hunted and killed by suggesting it is no different to catching and killing fish or crab etc when it is so patently obvious that it is. Do you mean because we kill one animal we have the absolute right to kill another in anyway we choose.

As for my eating meat. For the most part the meat I eat at home has had as good a life and death as the law allows as a minimum and I suspect far better. We have used the same butcher for the last 20 odd years. Geoff Sergeants of Stow Bridge nr Downham Market. He slaughters the animals he processes, you can see photo’s on his wall of the meat being sold that week. All of it from animals reared in or around West Norfolk. If I eat out or aboard, of course I have no knowledge of what I’m eating.

3) So interpretation had no real meaning in the context of this debate.

4) Who would or could make, edit a film showing whaling in a good light without bias. I would suggest that it is impossible to do so just as it is for those against.

5) So doing something which may prevent someone from getting what they want (remember there is no need) is in itself wrong? Of course if you need to eat and whale isn’t available you will eat something else. Would that really prevent the starving from eating? Denying someone the “right” to eat whale.

Any monies spent trying to stop whaling could of course be spent elsewhere and no effort made to stop what is a barbaric industry from continuing. Perhaps when it is brought to an end that money could go toward feeding the hungry.

All of the above of course presuppose that the Japanese are hunting whale for it’s meat. Which of they’re not as that would be in contravention of international law.


EDIT: remove a repeat of your 5

 

[geraint]

As I said, I eat meat. Does that really lessen my perception of cruelty or my right to object to what I perceive to be cruel. I think not.

If I choose to eat crab or lobster or fish it is in the knowledge that it has been killed quickly.

I mystified by your use of the word "interpretation" how is the killing of a whale an interpretation?

As for an organisation bringing it to our attention, how else would you get to hear of it.

People are starving it's true, However those trying to prevent the hunting of whale are not the cause of that starvation, nor could they prevent it.

how is your turkey....

 

[misterdubya]

Personally, whale hunting is barbaric to say the least.

I have no time for 'its research'... what if you get altzheimers... you'll be glad if there is a cure. Why? You live a bit longer to get cancer and die anyway. Why do some people wish to be immortal?

Anyway, on what basis coljack do you think that? You cant just post a fragrant comment like that with no evidence can you?

For all you and I know, they may be resarching the effectiveness of fruit bon bons when eaten by eskimo's.

One thing they are not 'resarching' is weight loss.

As for the crabs..... your right col - thats why I wont eat them.

I'm sure you wear leather shoes and eat meat so why the sudden concern for a whale?

And why are you sure of this? Again, fragrant to say the least.

If I can put this into perspective... I could 'assume' you cant find regular work as you can't manage your weight and a potential employer can see that.

But I dont, as I'm not narrow minded like your good self.

Mr. W.

 

[ColJack]

ah, resorting to personal attacks..
when did I have a personal attack at you?

you're right I made an assumption that you are not a hemp wearing vegan and I appologise if you are.

 

[misterdubya]

Col, Im trying to point out that you cannot assume or post comments thats you cannot back up.

If you care to read your thread about your weight loss, I have commented on how well you are doing (last week). Im not personally attacking YOU, but your standpoint on this discussion.

Im sorry if it came across that way.

Mr. W.

 

[ajstoneservices]

As I said, I eat meat. Does that really lessen my perception of cruelty or my right to object to what I perceive to be cruel. I think not.

If I choose to eat crab or lobster or fish it is in the knowledge that it has been killed quickly.

I mystified by your use of the word "interpretation" how is the killing of a whale an interpretation?

As for an organisation bringing it to our attention, how else would you get to hear of it.

People are starving it's true, However those trying to prevent the hunting of whale are not the cause of that starvation, nor could they prevent it.

how is your turkey....

I'm sure it will be just fine.

 

[ajstoneservices]

have you seen what they do to crabs?
they clamp them on a conveyor whilst alive and then use something similar to a router to saw off their legs leaving just the torso which is then dumped and left to die.

or if sold whole, they ( along with lobster ) are plunged into boiling water.. you really think that's fast?

fish are suffocated if they are lucky, or gutted alive if they are one of the first ones out of the net..

cows, sheep and pigs all have their throats slit and choke on their own blood as they bleed out. Ok so most of the time they are unconcious but they still die relatively slowly..

a great deal of medical advances that are taken for granted these days were made by research carried out on various animals..

If they find a cure for alzheimers by studying the brains of a few hundred whales, would you refuse it if you got the disease?

With respect Col, whats has any of that that got to do with Whale hunting?
The fact is, there is no justifiable reason for hunting them no matter how hard you try.

 

[LastMagicBean]

Col, Im trying to point out that you cannot assume or post comments thats you cannot back up.

Yes he can.
It's an opinion.
I don't happen to agree with it. But yes he can.
The day opinions are banned, no matter how much we disagree, will be the day forums die.

 

[big-all]

bloody bleeding hearts..

nothing wrong with that, they're hunting them for research.
it's not like they're herding them into shallow water and clubbing them to death for food like some of them do..

I wish people would just leave the animals alone. Why do we need to research everyting until we destroy it. Why does everything have to be weighed and measured and tagged.

It's mainly humans that wipe the animals out anyway so just leave them alone.

this is the problem they are not researching the whales
killing whales was banned the japanese would not sign up to the agreement
the only way agreement could be reached was allowing them to hunt whales to eat and call it "research"
you dont kill hundreds off a species for reserch you kill a few if the action can justify the deaths with the experiments rendering the animal inedible unlike the factory ships prossesing the animal and the japanease eating the research

 

[ColJack]

Ok, to be fair I only watched the first 3 mins or so of the clip shown and saw that the hunting ship said "Reaearch" on it and that it was too small to be a proper whaling ship so I assumed it WAS a research vessel.
I didn't realise it was a hunter ship for a larger prosessing boat that is clearly hunting for food reasons..

I don't condone hunting them for food but if it IS for research then I don't mind it.. it might lead to medical breakthroughs

I don't see the "exploding harpoon" that AJ mentions, it's a regular harpoon, it just makes a big splash..
to be fair to them they do try and end it's suffering by shooting it in the head..

 

[ajstoneservices]

Ok, to be fair I only watched the first 3 mins or so of the clip shown and saw that the hunting ship said "Reaearch" on it and that it was too small to be a proper whaling ship so I assumed it WAS a research vessel.
I didn't realise it was a hunter ship for a larger prosessing boat that is clearly hunting for food reasons..

I don't condone hunting them for food but if it IS for research then I don't mind it.. it might lead to medical breakthroughs

I don't see the "exploding harpoon" that AJ mentions, it's a regular harpoon, it just makes a big splash..
to be fair to them they do try and end it's suffering by shooting it in the head..

Are you now trying to suggest that whalers do not use exploding harpoons.

 

[ajstoneservices]

Col when you have another few minutes to spare take a look at this link

“If we can imagine a horse having two or three explosive spears stuck into its stomach and being made to pull a butcher’s truck through the streets of London while it pours blood in the gutter, we shall have an idea of the present method of killing. The gunners themselves admit that if whales could scream the industy would stop, for nobody would be able to stand it.” – Dr. Harry D. Little, ship’s physician, after returning form an Antarctic whaling expedition in 1946.

Today’s methods of hunting and killing whales are basically the same as those used in 1946.

There is nothing humane or compassionate about the way modern whalers kill their quarry. How do they do it? With exploding harpoons. If the whale is still alive after the harpoon’s head explodes in its body, the whalers finish the job with high-powered rifles.

The International Whaling Commission defines the humane killing of a whale as “… causing its death without pain, stress or distress perceptible to the animal.” Whales killed with exploding harpoons and high-powered rifles must certainly feel extreme “pain, stress and distress.” Whaling is not humane — it’s cruelty. For example:

* Whales are often pursued to the point of exhaustion before they are harpooned.
* Even well-aimed exploding harpoons are not always fatal, and most whales are harpooned multiple times before they die.
* Wounded, harpooned whales are dragged to whaling vessels, where they are speared with more harpoons, shot with high-powered rifles or electrocuted with electrified lances.

Because whales are well-adapted to dive deeply, they can slow their breathing and heart rate, and direct blood to their brain even as the rest of the animal starts shutting down. This means that some whales that appear dead or unconscious are probably still feeling extreme pain.

It’s time to end this cruelty. It’s time to end whaling.