Oversized rads a good idea?

[wiffola]

PV for feed in at the present FIT is far more beneficial to your finances than solar thermal.
PV on a 16panel roof should generate an income of circa 2K per anum,solar thermal might save you 60% of your DHW so roughly less than £ 200PA.

As usual Agile,way off the mark and out of your depth.

I completely agree. We installed the PV as it was a no brainer when compared to the solar hot water financial return. It also meant compeletly overhauling our boiler setup to make it work which at the time wasnt an option (our boiler isnt solar compatible).

As an example on LPG 4x47kg we've only had 2 new bottles since March 3rd when we turned the heating off. We've probably used 3 bottles in 6 months just for DHW.

So the savings would have been less than £150pa.

Whereas PV since May 16 have already generated £400. It's a no brainer with the FIT at it's current rate.

Having said all that we are high elec consumers (dishwasher, tumble dryer etc) so also make extra savings there.

Anyways can we get back my original question:

What happens in the summer with these types of biomass/wood fueled boilers?

 

[Agile]

The savings from solar thermal become higher compared with LPG because of the unjustifiably high charges for LPG.

You can continue to run a wood boiler during the summer if you want to but the cost and bother may be unworthwhile.

Tony

 

[wiffola]

The savings from solar thermal become higher compared with LPG because of the unjustifiably high charges for LPG.

You can continue to run a wood boiler during the summer if you want to but the cost and bother may be unworthwhile.

Tony

Thanks for answering my question.

There is potential in the future to add a solar hot water panel when we rebuild a lean to we have.

 

[DeltaT2]

PV for feed in at the present FIT is far more beneficial to your finances than solar thermal.
PV on a 16panel roof should generate an income of circa 2K per anum,solar thermal might save you 60% of your DHW so roughly less than £ 200PA.

As usual Agile,way off the mark and out of your depth.

I completely agree. We installed the PV as it was a no brainer when compared to the solar hot water financial return. It also meant compeletly overhauling our boiler setup to make it work which at the time wasnt an option (our boiler isnt solar compatible).

As an example on LPG 4x47kg we've only had 2 new bottles since March 3rd when we turned the heating off. We've probably used 3 bottles in 6 months just for DHW.

So the savings would have been less than £150pa.

Whereas PV since May 16 have already generated £400. It's a no brainer with the FIT at it's current rate.

Having said all that we are high elec consumers (dishwasher, tumble dryer etc) so also make extra savings there.

Anyways can we get back my original question:

What happens in the summer with these types of biomass/wood fueled boilers?

It's a bit strange you are on about saving, when you don't even have a Bulk LPG tank??!! Is there a reason for that?

The problems with PV are; Will they still be on your roof after the first gale or high winds - most are light Aluminum. Will the FIT still be in place when Hospitals start to close, we've a long, long way to go in this recession!!! How long will it be before your PV panels start to deteriorate, 7-10 years? My understanding is they're all only as good as the worst panel, output wise?? One of my pals is a structural engineer & a good one, he said 99% of roofs are not designed to take the extra wind load etc of these panels & half of them will end up in the street after the first high winds........

I also heard of one PV system on the West Coast of Scotland that was struck by lightening, the house was burnt to the ground!!

Thermal solar is cheap to install, maintenance free & will last for ever.

 

[wiffola]

PV for feed in at the present FIT is far more beneficial to your finances than solar thermal.
PV on a 16panel roof should generate an income of circa 2K per anum,solar thermal might save you 60% of your DHW so roughly less than £ 200PA.

As usual Agile,way off the mark and out of your depth.

I completely agree. We installed the PV as it was a no brainer when compared to the solar hot water financial return. It also meant compeletly overhauling our boiler setup to make it work which at the time wasnt an option (our boiler isnt solar compatible).

As an example on LPG 4x47kg we've only had 2 new bottles since March 3rd when we turned the heating off. We've probably used 3 bottles in 6 months just for DHW.

So the savings would have been less than £150pa.

Whereas PV since May 16 have already generated £400. It's a no brainer with the FIT at it's current rate.

Having said all that we are high elec consumers (dishwasher, tumble dryer etc) so also make extra savings there.

Anyways can we get back my original question:

What happens in the summer with these types of biomass/wood fueled boilers?

It's a bit strange you are on about saving, when you don't even have a Bulk LPG tank??!! Is there a reason for that?

The problems with PV are; Will they still be on your roof after the first gale or high winds - most are light Aluminum. Will the FIT still be in place when Hospitals start to close, we've a long, long way to go in this recession!!! How long will it be before your PV panels start to deteriorate, 7-10 years? My understanding is they're all only as good as the worst panel, output wise?? One of my pals is a structural engineer & a good one, he said 99% of roofs are not designed to take the extra wind load etc of these panels & half of them will end up in the street after the first high winds........

I also heard of one PV system on the West Coast of Scotland that was struck by lightening, the house was burnt to the ground!!

Thermal solar is cheap to install, maintenance free & will last for ever.

We haven't got space for a bulk tank. Dont get me wrong, we have lots of area just none that fits the crazy regs. Having said that, it's cheaper on 47kg (at the moment) as we have a good deal and there's no tank standing charge. That's a fact - I have the figures to prove it.

The FIT is guaranteed for 25 years at the rate we are now - although of course who trusts the governement wont back track!

We've had very high winds this year and they are still there - that doesnt concern me at all.

Anyway back to the topic...

I am quite happy with the boimass/log gasification outdoor boiler idea...anyone with some real life experience of this?

 

[wiffola]

Here's what I'm thinking...

Rip out LPG eco tec plus and sell on ebay.

Sort out a few good log suppliers in the area.

Store the split logs around our house under cover. As much area as possible. We have great access to our driveway for big deliveries. I can supplement the logs as a hobby whenever I walk in the woods. (we live 50 metres from a forest.)

Baxi Solo Innova located in shed - only 2 feet from house with flue going out the top of the roof.

Thermal store would be inside the house with immersion heater, supplemented by our PV's in the summer. It wont cover all of it, but it will certainly help. I'll get one that is solar compatable so in the future we could plumb in solar hot water panels if we find space.

Apply for heat premium payment and get on RHI when it starts.

Any huge flaws in that plan?

 

[DeltaT2]

Sounds about right mate, you may need a MCS install for the Gasification boiler etc, which could well bump up the price!!

To get the best out of a log gasification you need a good sized 'buffer' tank/tanks, last one we fitted it was 2 tanks about 800Ltr each if I recall correctly. Great units & if you can get free logs, it's well, free!!
I think the guy runs it all day & re-fuels 1-2 times a day, but this was a big gaffe!!

I'd never fit PV, always thermal solar, been fitting thermal solar for 25 years and of all the greenwash products, it's the dogs danglers.

 

[Biggles..]

Turn the biomas off in summer.
Baxi solo is a nice burner.

Agile....your off the mark by miles.

Let's compare figures. 16panel array cost approx £12K generates £2k PA.
10 year running is £20k.8K in the black.
Solar thermal, £4K install,saves £200 PA, 10 year running £2k so where £2K in the red.

PV, Fit is guaranteed at present for 25years,most inverters now have a 25year guarantee,as do panels.
Solar thermal guarantees are half that.

PV is far better an investment than sonar thermal ever will be.

 

[Biggles..]

Another way to look at it is

Take utility bills of £500gas and £500elec

Buy a 12K PV array,reduce Elec by a little for self use say to £400PA, but generate £20K in years feed in.

So £12K + £4k (10yrs Elec) = £16K.
It generates 20 so £4K in the black.

Install solar termal at £4K reduce has bill by £200 max to say £300PA.

So £4k install + £3K gas bill (10years)= £7K
IN THE RED.

This is why PV is a way to make those with large lump sums of money richer.
To replace 2 panels that generate an income with a technology ie solar thermal thy won't even pay for itself in 20years is daft,considering FIT for solar thermal still isn't agreed and at most is likely to be a lump sum or a yearly payment,even if it's was £200 PA payin it would still take 10years to pay for itself with no change in your annual gas bill.

Add say FIT for solar thermal of £200PA then you would still be £5K in the red for the first 10years.
End of 20years woul be -5K balance + 2k FIT - 3K gas bill = 6K in the red.

Compare that to PV where you have a balance of 4K + 20K FIT - 4K Elec bill = 20K in the black.

A 26K swing in 20years, your PV parts are still in warranty and your solar thermal would need replacing 5years previous.

As a thermal installer,PV has spelt the end of solar hot water.

 

[DeltaT2]

You can buy a thermal solar panel for <£400 & are buttons to install. But hey the PV bandwagon is well & truely moving! I can see all the advantages and there's plenty jumping on the said bandwagon. As always, time will tell how good they are & if the UK government will pull the funding? Again with everything in life, if it's too good to be true, it normally is!!

 

[Biggles..]

Cheap chineese tubes,cheap controllers etc....your welcome to them.
If your fitting good kit, safely with scafold etc then £3-4 is cheap.

 

[Norcon]

What happens in the summer with these types of biomass/wood fueled boilers?

You can run them if you wish.
The one I referred to earlier was run every day throughout the summer to heat 210/l of hw. HW has priority. (Family of Six)
Being fan assisted its very easy ignited.
You load the fire box to suit. A huge expensive buffer/thermal store isn't necessary and would use up too much space anyway.

 

[wiffola]

I had a guy over today to look at our site and give us a ball park.

He said for a gasification boiler we would need a 1000ltr store and a typical installation is £18k. That was a twinheat bioheat boiler that could take anything under the sun.

Is that normal??! Seems like huge overkill on the tank and the cost!

Ended up discussing ASHP with him in the end as he thought that was the most sensible option for us. Although he got slightly put off when he saw our microbore pipping.

He was another dan foss dhp AQ supporter.

Now I'm more confused than ever!

 

[Norcon]

£18k sounds a bargain. I had a £20k quote about 8 years ago for a Froling system, but to be honest I'd rather have shoved red hot coals up my **** than part with £20k for a boiler.

 

[wiffola]

I have a company coming over for a site visit tomorrow for a central boiler 1450 e-classic...I will post the results and cost!