People who only believe lies.

[motorbiking]

A crime that is a crime is a crime. Hate crime is an aggravating factor (i.e. something that makes the crime more serious, unlike a mitigating factor which goes to lessen the crime). Aggravating factor increase the sentence, while mitigating factors can help to reduce it. That does not make something motivated by prejudice a criminal offence, if it is not in itself a criminal offence. This is helpfully known as a hate incident, something the government would like to record and for the police to be involved in but neither is encompassed in any statute granting powers.

Jeremy Corbyn is free to hold anti-Semitic views without fear of criminal prosecution. The Labour Party is free to be anti-semitic without fear of prosecution.

 

[JohnD]

Boris Johnson is free to make anti-Islamic statements and publish anti-Islamic newspaper articles without fear of criminal prosecution. Magazines of which he is editor are free to publish anti-semitic articles without fear of criminal prosecution.
He makes use of this freedom.

What goes on inside his head (if anything) is of no consequence.

The Conservative Party is free to be anti-Semitic and anti-Islamic.

 

[JP_]

Sounds like that is where the real problem is then - this freedom to be anti-semitic, anti-islam, racist etc. in articles and speeches. Maybe this freedom should be reviewed, as from all accounts, it is damaging society and politics.

 

[motorbiking]

I'd defend a person's right to be a racist, anti-semite, anti-christian, anti-muslim, scumbag. People should have the right to think what they like. They should also have the right to say what they like so long as they aren't breaking the law.

 

[JohnD]

They should also have the right to say what they like so long as they aren't breaking the law.

That would apply whatever the law is.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Sounds like that is where the real problem is then - this freedom to be anti-semitic, anti-islam, racist etc. in articles and speeches. Maybe this freedom should be reviewed, as from all accounts, it is damaging society and politics.

Are you applying for the job of dictator?

 

[JP_]

It's either a problem or it is not. If it is not a problem, then why is everybody banging on about it?

Seems people cannot make their minds up.

 

[sodthisforfun]

I'd defend a person's right to be a racist, anti-semite, anti-christian, anti-muslim, scumbag. People should have the right to think what they like. They should also have the right to say what they like so long as they aren't breaking the law.

That's true - either believe in freedom or you don't. Freedom is good but it shouldn't go unchallenged, though how it's challenged these days isn't helpful. I often think that just shouting people down without explaining does no good. Time, energy and money should be spent on education as I think education is the best way to combat scumbagism.

We do need also to take our press (esp our press) into account with their derogatory articles, brexit lies etc who are making racism more overt and justified.

 

[JP_]

They should also have the right to say what they like so long as they aren't breaking the law.

Slander is not a crime, and much of the lies are essentially slanderours / libellous. If somebody stood outside your house telling everybody that passed that you were a paedophile, anti-Semite, racist and rapist, would you be OK with that, as it is not a crime? If other people started to repeat it, and soon people were saying you were not fit to do your job, should not have a family, are an enemy of society, would that not bother you?

This is an extreme example, but this is essentially what the press and politicians do all the time to discredit opponents. Tell the same lies enough times and people will start to believe it.
This can then cause serious harm to people and in the current situation, the future of an entire country.

Labour* is not an anti-Semitic or racist political party. Corbyn is not a terrorist, and is not friends with terrorists. Brexit is not going to be good for the economy. Father Christmas is not real.
But it's all been stated as fact so much that most people believe it.

But I know I am banging my head against a wall here.


*btw, I am not voting labour, but that does not stop me getting angry when people spread lies about them.

 

[EFLImpudence]

If somebody stood outside your house telling everybody that passed that you were a paedophile, anti-Semite, racist and rapist, would you be OK with that, as it is not a crime?

I would ask them what they meant by 'anti-Semite'.

Seriously, though, that is not the problem.
In your example, it would be me making the accusation that people had said that about me - whether they had or had not - to discredit them.

 

[JP_]

How is it not the problem? We have a dominant right wing media, with some far right tendencies, which is only interested in damaging the democratic process through mass propaganda by constantly attacking labour and sometimes liberal democrat MPs. They publish stories about people that are not true, make claims about the state of the country that are not true, all to rile people into a frenzy and vote for the party that they say are the saviours of this nation. It really is a mess. The media pretty much run the country now - politicians are just the puppets put in place by the media via the electorate.

 

[EFLImpudence]

I think that is what I said.

Rather than people actually committing an offence, others are accusing them to discredit them.

 

[Notch7]

How is it not the problem? We have a dominant right wing media, with some far right tendencies, which is only interested in damaging the democratic process through mass propaganda by constantly attacking labour and sometimes liberal democrat MPs. They publish stories about people that are not true, make claims about the state of the country that are not true, all to rile people into a frenzy and vote for the party that they say are the saviours of this nation. It really is a mess. The media pretty much run the country now - politicians are just the puppets put in place by the media via the electorate.

I would say there are 2 things here

yes the right wing media dominate, yes they are Tory puppets, yes they put out lots of untrue or misleading stories.

But I would also say Corbyn is not innocent -he has moved the party to the left and marginalised it. Corbyn is life long protester, he aligns with the underdog and is anti capitalist, anti establishment. Unfortunately it means he has sympathy with Hamas, Iran, Fidel Castro, Chavez and his beliefs whilst no doubt in the best intentions are also not balanced. He called Fidel Castro a champion of social justice -the guy repressed his people in a communist regime, but Corbyn seems blindsided by his socialist ideology. Dont forget Corbyns inner circle includes Seamus Milne and Andrew Murray.

 

[EFLImpudence]

It does seem strange that all the countries of the leaders you mention have been targets of American - what's the polite word? - interference?

 

[transam]

Lies are an important part of life

truth do we all really want the truth about everything ?

do we really want to tell the truth about every thing ?