Permanent vs. switched live Part 2

[ebee]

So, if he was not wrong, he was right then.
Good.
If he was right then those who argued against him were wrong.
Whether jobbing electricians or not is irrelevant (how many refer to ring finals as ring mains and lavatory hand basins as sinks?).
As for good/best practice yes it`s a good (very good) idea to follow wiring regs etc and I (hopefully) always do so.
I believe it to be the most realistically practical way forward (I suspect that Ban might endorse that ).
You might say he nit picks a bit, but he is correct and gives a lot of input to the fora , a mine of info & corrects a few urban myths along the way.

Whether you agree with Ban, me, anyone else about anything at all , the moderator should not have locked the thread & I hope they are now hanging their head in shame.

 

[saxondale]

Whether you agree with Ban, me, anyone else about anything at all , the moderator should not have locked the thread & I hope they are now hanging their head in shame.

never said he was right either ( I`d have to poke out the other eye before I read his reply to that too..)

but no thats exactly why the mods were right and locked the thread - the question was answered, the question over the regs would never be answered other than in a court of law - thats the bit BAS forgets

now to throw everyone - do you not have to identify LIVE ? then

 

[ColJack]

the question over the regs would never be answered other than in a court of law

a false statement..

the regs are not law.. FACT..

the are not mandatory... FACT...

non compliance with them is not illegal... FACT...

they CAN be used in a court of law to claim compliance with a statutory law, but non conformity to them does not automatically make you non compliant with the same law..


it's not like the CORGI thing where doing gas yourself is illegal..

now to throw everyone - do you not have to identify LIVE ? then

no, since either wire can become live with respect to earth if the switch is closed.. as long as the wires are both identified as potentially live wires ( hence why you tag black / blue / yellow / grey with red / brown ) then you're good.

also you are not supposed to work live so neither should be when you have the covers off..

 

[ban-all-sheds]

it's not like the CORGI thing where doing gas yourself is illegal..

Well I'm going to ignore all those who patronisingly believe that DIYers cannot be trusted to know, or expected to understand, the truth, and ask you if that's what the Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations actually say...

 

[ebee]

Apparently not.
So my plumbing/heating friends tell me it is OK providing not for gain (and safe of course)

 

[bernardgreen]

In the early days of CORGI when we self built our house British Gas were quite happy for me to install the gas pipe work. They tested it and then installed the meter and connected the supply. I am not a plumber let alone CORGI registered.

What was "interesting" was the test result was considered to be very good as the level in the manometer didn't drop at all. Apparently it could have dropped a certain amount and still have been a "pass". So does that mean some pressure drop ( ie a small leak ) is acceptable in the test ?

The test on the drains was more severe about pressure drop.

disclaimer This is from memories that are 27 years old

 

[ColJack]

Without prejudice to the generality of paragraphs (1) and (2) above and subject to paragraph (4) below, no employer shall allow any of his employees to carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or service pipework and no self-employed person shall carry out any such work, unless the employer or self-employed person, as the case may be, is a member of a class of persons approved for the time being by the Health and Safety Executive for the purposes of this paragraph.

the approved class of persons in this case is currently the CORGI

although this does not appear to include DIY'ers, it does mean that anyone you pay to do gas must be CORGI registered..

EDIT.. after reading a few more documents.. ( hard stuff to trudge through.. too much leagaleser ) it seems it's the same as Part P...

you can do all your own gas work, but you have to notify the LABC and submit plans and test results / have them test and inspect it.. ( and no doubt pay a fee. )..

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Yup.

 

[ebee]

So, can I (non Corgi) do gas work and LABC to inspect it ?
Where does "for gain" come into it? or is that a myth?

 

[ColJack]

the quote above mentions employers, employees, and self employed.. nowhere does it say "ANY PERSON" so as long as you're not being paid to do it, then you can do gas all you want..

the notification comes from another document which lists members of CORGI as being exempt from having to notify and submit plans for gas installation..

 

[saxondale]

the question over the regs would never be answered other than in a court of law

a false statement..

the regs are not law.. FACT..

the are not mandatory... FACT...

non compliance with them is not illegal... FACT...

they CAN be used in a court of law to claim compliance with a statutory law, but non conformity to them does not automatically make you non compliant with the same law..

if you`d wind your neck back in for a few seconds you`d see your " false facts ...." are what I had said - your doing a BAS, I never said they were law just that they would be used in a court of law, thats the whole crux of this problem, so from a DIYer point of view ASSUME THEY ARE LAW - cause there going to be used against you if it all goes wrong

 

[saxondale]

Okay Gas lovers, I`m going to be pedantic now - from my experiance of trading standards issues (as a plaintiff not a defendant I`ll add LOL) dont get tied up with the " not for gain...." exemption, it doesnt have to be monetary gain

 

[Stoday]

I think the moderator was right to lock the original thread.

The way some are grumbling you'd think he'd deleted the thread too. He's maintaining the look & feel of the forum. If you want a forum that's less tightly moderated, there's plenty of them. Google "tradesmens forum" and go to what you find.

The moderator's been consistent with the way this forums been moderated in the past. I see no reason why he should let it change now.

 

[securespark]

I'm still waiting for the mod who locked the original thread to have the courtesy to post here the reason why.

 

[Stoday]

I'm still waiting for the mod who locked the original thread to have the courtesy to post here the reason why.

He's not going to do that.

Not a matter of being discourtious, but it opens the possibility of an argument. If an argument occurs with a moderator, who will moderate the moderator?