Where in the regs please john
Plumbers. Bless them.
- Thread starter RF Lighting
- Start date
Where in the regs please john
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412.2.3.2 + NOTE
Yea and YY is the best kind of flex you can get IMO. I saw an HVAC engineer wiring up some 0.5mm 25c recently. Poor guy. At least the cores are numbered!
Goodness - I missed that bit! I guess he means 'via the pipework'?Ooooh. That's not good. Is that why boiler commissioners insist on (cross) bonding all the pipes?Earth for the boiler comes via the main bondor not at all if its all plastic
In passing, I didn't know they made 'all plastic' boilers
Kind Regards, John
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I see that EFLI beat me to it - but 412.2.3.2 has been mentioned umpteen times already in this thread (mainly by EFLI and myself
)Kind Regards, John
I see that EFLI beat me to it - but 412.2.3.2 has been mentioned umpteen times already in this thread (mainly by EFLI and myself
Kind Regards, John
Can you quote the reg please John
Can't find it again.
There was a mention of over-sleeving bare cpc, and used as a conductor.
100% not allowed under any circumstances according to the guy I spoke too at NIC.
Good to see the discussion is back on track.
There was a mention of over-sleeving bare cpc, and used as a conductor.
100% not allowed under any circumstances according to the guy I spoke too at NIC.
Good to see the discussion is back on track.
Of course (assuming that by 'over-sleeving' you mean just sleeved at the two ends of the bare conductor) that would mean that, for virtually all the run, the conductor would be only 'single insulated' (i.e. insulated but not sleeved) - which is an absolute no-no for any live conductor (outside of an enclosure) under any circumstances. The only 'single insulated' conductors allowed are G/Y insulated cables used as CPCs or bonding conductors.
Kind Regards, John
Not all cables have a cpc, are the wholesale outlets selling illegal cable, or do you have to tap one one the side
Goodness - I missed that bit! I guess he means 'via the pipework'?Ooooh. That's not good. Is that why boiler commissioners insist on (cross) bonding all the pipes?Earth for the boiler comes via the main bond
In passing, I didn't know they made 'all plastic' boilers
Kind Regards, John
Yes - via the pipework. No not plastic boilers but all plastic pipe. Ie boiler not earthed at all
There are a few boilers that need functional earths sao that makes oit interesting.
Cross bonding is all to do with extronious metal in special locations.
Lots of boiler manu's state cross bonding not required ( only due to it being accomplished inside the boiler by other methods) But that does not mean that the boilers that dont claim this do not need bonding ( as if they are running on pre R17 instalation - they certain ly will) ( but not reqired after R17)
Bonding & earthing - another lovely grey area!
Hope this isn't too much of a tangent. AFAICS the above serious points relate to wording of standards and regulations and, once again, we have the situation of attempts to be specific creating conflicts.
The Electricity at Work Regulations were changed to remove references to British Standards and NEIC, perhaps because of this sort of conflict. They speak of danger. As mentioned in another thread, the HASAW etc A does apply in domestic buildings, especially in terms of protecting persons working therein. This applies here where a professional (plumber, electrician or others) carries out work which interfaces with another profession or the householder. Each professional must make a judgement as to whether their actions, or non actions, would create a position where there could be danger.
I suggest that all sensible contributors have automatically assumed this to be a normal part of their working practice, but have not seen the regulations as providing the ultimate document for justifying decisions.
The Electricity at Work Regulations were changed to remove references to British Standards and NEIC, perhaps because of this sort of conflict. They speak of danger. As mentioned in another thread, the HASAW etc A does apply in domestic buildings, especially in terms of protecting persons working therein. This applies here where a professional (plumber, electrician or others) carries out work which interfaces with another profession or the householder. Each professional must make a judgement as to whether their actions, or non actions, would create a position where there could be danger.
I suggest that all sensible contributors have automatically assumed this to be a normal part of their working practice, but have not seen the regulations as providing the ultimate document for justifying decisions.
Not allowed and definitely unwise.
Obviously not allowed.No not plastic boilers but all plastic pipe. Ie boiler not earthed at all
As all boilers must be earthed that is not really relevant.
I am not sure if what you describe is what you happen to come across or what you would be willing to do.
I cannot see why there is not a L,N & E supply to the boiler regardless of any control wiring which may be needed. Obviously all the wires can be in the same cable but removing the cpc on purpose to use it for something else is really unacceptable practice and saying it may be done because the cable restraints are too small is just a fatuous excuse.
It is called 'supplementary' bonding and, if required - by measurement, not by looking at it - should connect simultaneously accessible extraneous and exposed conductive parts in a special location.
Special locations are where there is increased risk of electric shock because the body may be wet. A kitchen is not a special location.
So, unless the boiler is in a bathroom etc. this bonding is never required.
Should the boiler be in a special location it may be required.
On modern installations NO supplementary bonding is required by the regulations.
No that is not the reason.
It matters not (to the manufacturer) whether the boiler is connected electrically to the pipes or not.
Perhaps the ones who say it is not required actually understand supplementary bonding.
Plus, this bonding, when demanded by plumbers, is not connected to the boiler (just the pipes) so is not even applied correctly.
Please explain exactly what R17 is and what difference it makes to bonding.
In a way but only because of poor understanding and because judgements have to be made.Bonding & earthing - another lovely grey area!
It is not a question of "I have a pipe. Do I bond or not?"
I am not condoning or promoting any of this. Some one asked for an example of when it can happen & I offered on instance.
OK some boiler manus state that as the 'bonding' (if rerq) doesn't need to be done with bonding straps & cable as the boiler will do that for u. Nothing to do with how it works, what it does, or what its called. Just to tell u that u dont need to do it on that particular boiler.
Yes all boilers must be earthed but only those that need functional earths will show an obvious (visual) issue if they havnt got one.
Yes its supplementary bonding but it would help if they stopped changing the names of things. (equipotential & main etc)
Plumbers (understandably) did suffer from bonding mania. To level all the incoming earths & various supplies & the pipework it does make sense to do it in the one place most of the pipes are bound to be in close proximity (by the boiler) with main bonds from incoming gas & water & lekky.
To me R17 is the line in the sand for full domestic protection or not. As supplementary bonding is not needed in properties with all ccts protected by RCD's but anything earlier still is, to protect special locations etc.
This is / was not meant to be argumentative. I am always happy to learn. If we spent less time slagging each other off ( well some posters) and more time explaining each others issues we would all be that much wiser.
OK some boiler manus state that as the 'bonding' (if rerq) doesn't need to be done with bonding straps & cable as the boiler will do that for u. Nothing to do with how it works, what it does, or what its called. Just to tell u that u dont need to do it on that particular boiler.
Yes all boilers must be earthed but only those that need functional earths will show an obvious (visual) issue if they havnt got one.
Yes its supplementary bonding but it would help if they stopped changing the names of things. (equipotential & main etc)
Plumbers (understandably) did suffer from bonding mania. To level all the incoming earths & various supplies & the pipework it does make sense to do it in the one place most of the pipes are bound to be in close proximity (by the boiler) with main bonds from incoming gas & water & lekky.
To me R17 is the line in the sand for full domestic protection or not. As supplementary bonding is not needed in properties with all ccts protected by RCD's but anything earlier still is, to protect special locations etc.
This is / was not meant to be argumentative. I am always happy to learn. If we spent less time slagging each other off ( well some posters) and more time explaining each others issues we would all be that much wiser.
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