police + 160mph = ?

[Big_Spark]

The Guy should be in prison. I don't give a monkey's about his so called training, the simle fact is the general public do not have this soprt of training and as such they have no idea how to judge the oncoming speed of a vehicle at these velocities, as such driving at this speed, without good cause, is dangerous and will result in death when things go wrong, and when they do it is catastrophic.

I do not care what bullshit some will come out with to justify this, the simple fact is the Police do not pursue vehicles at these speeds on the roads, they would drop back and use a Helicopter to track the vehicle. Very few cars on the road are capable of hitting 160mph, let alone sustaining those speeds, and those vehicles that can are likely to have a tracker fitted, so there would be no reason for the Police to drive at such speeds.

The Guy is a reckless fool, the Judge a stupid fool and the Officer that reported him 100% correct for doing his Job.

 

[JulieL]

wots wrong with the police doing 160 mph they are training to do there job just like the r.a.f pilots in the lake district doing 1500mph over your head. the trouble with the public is that there is to many do gooders and not enough dogs **** in the public.

Absolutely, that is what the man is trained to do!!

Come on, are you telling me that you all maintain the speed limit - cos if you are I find that really hard to believe!!
And I'm sure we all have stories to tell of other people doing the same kind of speeds as this guy and not getting caught - several of my friends/colleagues have told me of their speeding escapades, often in excess of 150 mph - cos they've got a big car and want to see 'how much they can get out of it'. But you know what they say about people with big cars......................

 

[Thermo]

d & j, thats why i said both he and the force policy was at fault. As i said when i was doing it, you used to have to book your vehicle as training and you had to have a more senior driver with you, so no jollies. I totally agree it was done in completely the wrong way and it only goes to **** the public off

As for the double standards, where are they? The police reported him for prosecution and the cps put him before the court. What ever happens in the court is at the discretion of the judge. If you think they apply double standards i suggets you go and argue it with a judge and see how far you get. If you think thats double standards then so are many of the unreported cases where police officers get done for at fault accidents that normal civilians would never get to court for.

As for a pilot, what about a bird strike? Very common and can take a plane out. a few tonnes of steel and carbon fibre and aviation fuel landing on a village...bit risky, better not train them. Guns oh dangerous things, better give them blanks all the time.

The bottom line is when something goes wrong, you want them there. God knows every body whinges on here about no service from them, but when the **** hits the fan you want and expect them to be able to deal with it....and they do. If you think driving a police car on a shout at speed is a jolly, then ask your local nick if you can go for a ride along. It is the most nerve wracking, difficult thing you can have to do as a driver. Plan your route, drive it, deal with all the information coming in over several radios, form a mental picture of the problem you are going to, not know what you will face when you get there, deal with morons on the road who have absolutley no idea what the highway code says to do when an emergency service vehicle approaches, have the pressure to get there as soon as possible (god knows that gets moaned about often enough) hope that no idiot steps out or pulls out....oh and then deal with whatever it is when you get there. Still you can sleep sound in your bed at night cos someones doing that for you. Until you have had to do it you have no idea. Most people cant even drive a car properly let alone do all that. And why can they do that because of training.

 

[Big_Spark]

Thermo, you atre living in cloud cuckoop land my friend, where I live there is no Police after 7pm and before 8am, the nearest manned station is 11 miles away. Even during daylight hours there are a maximum of 4 Officers to cover three semi urban areas and the outlying towns (about 70,000 people).

When there was an accident that required all three services just after midnight not too long ago, the Fire Engine with Cutting gear (based in Colchester 15 miles away) arrived and had started work BEFORE the Police arrived, in fact the Firecrew did a heroic job and had almost released the trapped motorist before they turned up...48 minutes AFTER the phone call to 999.

A Burglary down the road took the Police 3 weeks to attend, despite 9 phone calls.

Yes they are underfunded, yes they are understaffed, but the simple fact is in most cases we may as well not have them as they are next to bloody useless in this area.

The Cop was in the wrong, get over it, there is no excuse for endangering the Public, there are bloody racetracks for driving like a banshee, public roads are not the place for Nigel Mansell wannabees, whether they wear a Uniform or not.

 

[AdamW]

Right, I've given this one some thought. Now, obviously for training the speed isn't the major issue. Anyone can drive at 160mph in a straight line on a good road in the right car. But even motorway corners at that speed are tight. So, finding any old private space to do 160 won't help.

But what about the Nurburgring? Anyone can get on there (as Top Gear showed last year). I would be happy to have taxpayers money spent to take class A pursuit drivers (or whatever the top guns are called) and their 160mph Vectras over to Germany for a week of training. You have other traffic on the track, which would far better train someone for pursuit driving. Much more challenging to get round there than driving on a public road with lights and sirens.

As to the more regular training, it is my experience that the skills involved to drive at one speed are not that different to those required to drive at a slightly lower speed. Now, I haven't driven at 159mph. The fastest I have ever been is a genuine 119mph (GPS speed, dial was edging past 125). Now, that was flat out, so was probably equivalently hairy to 159 in the Vectra. The car didn't feel THAT much different to how it did at 110 or even 100.

Which leads me to wonder if any "training" accomplished would have been just as valid had he been going 120. Only difference is he would have been several times less likely to kill someone due to his stopping distance being less than 1/3 of a mile (cheers for the calculation Simon!)

I also read pip's link on tyres the other day. Speed ratings on tyres. Now, they are not rated to drive at that speed INDEFINITELY. No. 10 minutes, that is the rating. Now, I accept that a Vectra GSI will have highly-rated tyres, a W or Z rating. These are fine if you are driving in a straight line at constant speed, but I suspect there was a lot of accelerating and braking going on.

No, the only reason the policeman was doing this was because he wanted to drive around fast. We all want to do that, but if we are undergoing some form of driving training, our instructors will tell us off for doing that. Seeing as he was training, where was his instructor?

 

[AdamW]

Nigel Mansell wannabees,

It's that moustache, isn't it!

 

[david and julie]

If we are going to use driver training or ability to justify breaking the law what about these people?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/3257523.stm

I was always under the impression that the emergency services were only entitled to speed when on a shout? I do accept some of this is needed during training though, but have only seen training cars marked as such and usually with 3 or 4 people in them

Thermo, please don't take my comments personally, I do tend to get upset about excessive or inappropriate speed or dangerous driving. More so since losing a friend who was only walking home when hit by a speeding K**b. Not I must stress, a policeman.

 

[keyplayer]

The nays have it methinks, this guy is a ******, and by and large the highly trained police drivers are terrible. Any one can drive more easily at speed if everyone else is getting out of the way, which is only likely if one has a blue flashing light on the roof. It requires that certain macho streak to be A) Pursuer B) Pursued ..... Just leave the rest of us out of it please, save it for the donkey derby .

 

[nstreet]

Maybe the Judge has been conviced of motoring offences in the past and to avoid future points/fines its a case of 'you scratch my back & I'll scratch yours'

 

[pipme]

Could it be funny handshakers ..... ?

 

[Thermo]

ive never condoned what he has done in my replies, i have however tried to put a little perspective on it all. What i do take personally is the typical attitude of many in this country. They want people there to do the crap jobs and protect them, but they dont want anything else that goes with it. Well life is not like that, sorry but thats reality.

As for being able to drive at high speed with a blue light on going being easy, all i will say is try it. Its very much not about being macho, its hard, bloody hard. Until youve done it you are not in a position to give a reasoned judgement

 

[pipme]

Ah, ha ... Brunstone could be entering three radar equipped motors in this years Le Mans 24 hour race .. part of which is run on sometimes public roads ..
'Oo do yew fink yew are laddie ? Stirling 'kin Moss ? "

 

[Zampa]

I think you need to put a little perspective on this.
This guy is an advanced driver. What does that mean? First off he'll have gone through the following courses as a Bare Minimum.

Basic driving course - 2-3 weeks dependent on force
intermediate driving course - 2 weeks, night driving, skid pan
advanced - 4 weeks, double white line overtakes, snap overtakes, night driving etc.
Thats a minimum of 360 hours of intense specialized training. How many does a normal car driver have? 10-20?

Thats a minimum of 9 weeks driving at least 8 hours a day under continual assesment, with instant fails at any time on the course. The courses are mentally exhausting. At the end of each drive usually an hour long, you are debriefed and virtually every corner, overtake, safety aspect etc is gone through. Can you remember every detail from a drive you do for an hour? When they are taught to drive you are taught the system of driving, which teaches you to take in a number of things but is based around and above all safety. When you drive it you are reading the road as far ahead as you can see. That doesn't mean the bit of tarmac in front of you, but if you can see the tops of street lamps over a mile away over the top of a hill you are taught to interpret them eg a roundabout coming up etc.

After that comes constant assesments during the working career, retests, refreshers, further courses such as pursuit, tactical containment etc. Have you ever sat in a car with someone whose a numpty driver who you don't trust? You sit there with your foot going through the floor where the brake pedal should be and you rubbish yourself. Sit in a car with one of those guys driving and you will feel totally confident and struck by the air of calm thats in the car. Listen to a commentary from one of these guys driving in a follow at speed and hear how calm it is. You can tell an advanced driver from a normal patrol car driver. They are calm and clear and concise. The untrained driver normally sounds like they are on helium, don't listen to whats being said and repeat themselves over and over again.

So when it comes to the crunch, your child gets abducted, a police car gets behind it and gets on the motorway and gets to a speed of 160 mph. Now the helicopter is scrambled but its going to take 5 minutes to get overhead. What do you want that police driver to do. Do you want it to be a driver whos been trained to do that and is as safe as possibly can be?

Testing out the car? Its a fair point in principle as every car drives differently. The cars they use are checked every day eg oil water, tyre pressure etc. They do all handle differently and all have their own little idiosyncrasies. Not to much of a problem at 30 mph, but in a follow at 100 mph it makes a big difference.

Every time those blue lights go on every individual has to take a decision. Is what im doing justified, is the way im driving acceptable and safe? Believe me i've seen a lot of policeman end up in court for various accidents or offences that happened during their work when involved in a follow. Some have been absolutley justified and some seem to be the higher ranks covering their a**es. As for this one. Well his case has gone through the judicial system and a district judge has passed the judgement on him.

Personally i think that the force would appear to be to blame for their policy and i think he went about it in a stupid way that has not gained any support from the public. In my old force any training drives or familiarisations had to be booked as such and you had to have a senior driver with you.

As for the moustache. Totally and utterly unacceptably silly

OK....he was an advanced driver if someone had pulled out in front of him say 50 yards away......would his advanced driving skills have allowed him to take safe evasive action.....given that he would have had enough braking time under normal circumstances......or would he have smashed himself......and the other car to pieces?

If they need to test the handling at speed of a car there are plenty of test tracks.

He drove at 159 mph while not on an emergency.......he BROKE THE LAW END OF!

Listen to a commentary from one of these guys driving in a follow at speed and hear how calm it is.

I wonder how clam that commentry would have sounded just as someone pulls out on him.

Believe me i've seen a lot of policeman end up in court for various accidents or offences that happened during their work

And quite right........how many get away with a nod and a winkas this one has?

He had NO excuse but being a 'creme de la creme' police officer got him off.

Is he Captain Scarlet......does being 'creme de la creme' make him indestructable?

Im sure the guy is a very good policeman, and traffic cops have to deal with some awful things (possibly justifying why they have 'attitudes')...he certainly doesnt deserve to lose his job over it...but to be let off like that doesnt do police/public relations any good whatsoever.

A question.....are civilian advanced driving instructors allowed to drive like that on a public rd?

 

[david and julie]

Zampa wrote.

Im sure the guy is a very good policeman, and traffic cops have to deal with some awful things (possibly justifying why they have 'attitudes')...he certainly doesnt deserve to lose his job over it...but to be let off like that doesnt do police/public relations any good whatsoever

.
I certainly don't agree with the outcome of this case, but wouldn't go as far as saying they have "attitudes" by which, I presume you mean bad ones. I worked for years on the motorways, recovering vehicles after accidents and breakdowns and would say,by and large, they were more concerned about preventing further problems. I have met decent ones and real nasty ones, just like in all walks of life really.

 

[Zampa]

Zampa wrote.

Im sure the guy is a very good policeman, and traffic cops have to deal with some awful things (possibly justifying why they have 'attitudes')...he certainly doesnt deserve to lose his job over it...but to be let off like that doesnt do police/public relations any good whatsoever

.
I certainly don't agree with the outcome of this case, but wouldn't go as far as saying they have "attitudes" by which, I presume you mean bad ones. I worked for years on the motorways, recovering vehicles after accidents and breakdowns and would say,by and large, they were more concerned about preventing further problems. I have met decent ones and real nasty ones, just like in all walks of life really.

Yep, I did mean bad ones, a lot of police themselves dislike the 'motorway boys' because of it. Obvioulsy you cant tar them all with the same brush and as i said in the thread....it could be down to some of the appaling things they see and have to deal with. I know some very nice ones, but by an large I dont care for the attitude of the motorway police...who come a close second to the ones on bikes......dont take my word for it.......ask a policeman.