RCD or no RCD

[PBC_1966]

The external ones are longer because they have an additional 'stage' to them. Internal ones have just one nut which grips onto the armour. External ones have an extra ('outer') 'stage' which seals around the outer covering of the cable, to 'prevent' water ingress.

Not a very good picture from my archive, but here's what can happen when an internal gland is used externally:

 

[Taylortwocities]

What a horlicks. Nice to see the T&E properly installed in that stuffing gland at the top, NOT!!

 

[PBC_1966]

That was at a holiday caravan site right next to where I used to live. The whole place was full of deteriorating and badly installed hook-ups. Here are the other pictures from the same batch I took walking through there one day (no original dates on the images, but a rough guess I would say about 9 - 10 years ago):



They finally had the whole mess replaced about a year before I left.

 

[DinoTheDino]

Can you not run the swa cores through the wall?

Thank you EFLI for setting a new discussion off , I must say a very good idea, I like it very much.
Though........

He probably could. I hesitated to mention it because, although I would very happily do that (and advise people to do it) if the cores were going straight 'from box to box', or through conduit, the inner 'sheathing' (or whatever one calls it) does not seem very tough, and I might worry (if advising others!) a little about it being pushed through a 'jagged hole' in masonry. Having said that, if I were doing it for myself, rather than 'advising others', I'd probably just do it

The other problem in this case is that, at the house end of the SWA, one would presumably have to also run a separate earth through the wall to earth the armour - unless one took the inner cores separately through the wall (without their 'sheathing') - which I would not think very advisable.

....which in my, non native English speaker case, raises the question: Do you mean, starting from the Wiska box feed the 3 SWA cores through the wall, plus an extra earth core attached to the SWA armour via that special earthing bar and wire all (L+N+2 earth) onto the 45A switch? I am quite sure I got it right.....!

I'd run through conduit, but wouldn't consider doing it through "bare" wall. I don't think that inner layer of SWA is really designed or intended to be used as a protective sheath, as such.

....as to protect the cores from damage? Conduit?
Do I understand correctly: Lets say, from the living room side push a piece of conduit (suitable to the purpose, size wise) through the hole (as far as possible), then feed the 4 cores from the other side of the wall through the conduit and wire them up to the A45 switch?

I love scrolling through your comments, its like reading a book (in a positive way) just carry on, number 5 wants more input

 

[DinoTheDino]

...scrolled again through the suggestions and yes, I think I will feed the cores through the bare wall, it can't be that hard.

I'd run through conduit, but wouldn't consider doing it through "bare" wall. I don't think that inner layer of SWA is really designed or intended to be used as a protective sheath, as such.

but i will double check the "condition" of the core protection (seathing) before doing so and will indeed use conduit if necesary

 

[JohnW2]

....which in my, non native English speaker case, raises the question: Do you mean, starting from the Wiska box feed the 3 SWA cores through the wall, plus an extra earth core attached to the SWA armour via that special earthing bar and wire all (L+N+2 earth) onto the 45A switch? I am quite sure I got it right.....!

More-or-less, yes - the three cores of the SWA inside, and including, their 'covering' (which as have been discussed, is hardly tough enough to qualify as 'sheathing'), plus a separate single earth wire. Whether you'll have the terminal(s) in your switch to accommodate all the earth conductors, I don't know, but that will probably be OK. However ....

....as to protect the cores from damage? Conduit? Do I understand correctly: Lets say, from the living room side push a piece of conduit (suitable to the purpose, size wise) through the hole (as far as possible), then feed the 4 cores from the other side of the wall through the conduit and wire them up to the A45 switch?

Yes - and, again, the 3 SWA cores should remain in their covering', with the extra earth wire separate.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

...scrolled again through the suggestions and yes, I think I will feed the cores through the bare wall, it can't be that hard.

Both PBC and myself have said that we wouldn't be very happy to do that. Indeed, as I said, it's the reason why I didn't mention the 'cores through the wall' approach in the first place.

I'd run through conduit, but wouldn't consider doing it through "bare" wall. I don't think that inner layer of SWA is really designed or intended to be used as a protective sheath, as such.

but i will double check the "condition" of the core protection (seathing) before doing so and will indeed use conduit if necesary

It's not so much 'condition' - it's that it's not intended to provided mechanical protection to the cores (e.g. when being scraped by a hole in a wall) - since there is normally both armour and a tough outer sheathing outside of it - and hence isn't very 'tough'. I would personally certainly put the SWA cores through 'something' (i.e. not just through a 'bare' hole in the wall).

Kind Regards, John

 

[DinoTheDino]

Yes - and, again, the 3 SWA cores should remain in their covering', with the extra earth wire separate.

do you mean the grey covering surrounding the 3 cores with their individual colored covering?

 

[JohnW2]

Yes - and, again, the 3 SWA cores should remain in their covering', with the extra earth wire separate.

do you mean the grey covering surrounding the 3 cores with their individual colored covering?

Yep.

Kind Regards, John

 

[DinoTheDino]

Yes - and, again, the 3 SWA cores should remain in their covering', with the extra earth wire separate.

do you mean the grey covering surrounding the 3 cores with their individual colored covering?

Yep.

Cool, Thank you John.

Kind regards back
Dino

 

[kai]

Hey, thank you for the swift reply.
As stated, 2.5mm twin&earth outdoor cable and i was going to use 20mm conduit as well, all the way to the shed, then a split box(?) to divide it to a light switch and the socket.
I think i meant over current(?) in regards to the MCB, meaning if i got the pressure washer running at the same time as the lawn mower, if that is going to be "too much" for the socket.
See below the pictures of my CU
View attachment 93432
View attachment 93431
When you say the shed will need its own RCD, do you mean feeding from the living room socket to the shed, without RCD, and before the shed "split" as i mentioned above , i install an RCD spur???
Thank you again

Does that board have a High Integrity facility, i.e. three neutral bars? Is there a short spare length of busbar tucked away inside the unit?.
If it does, you should be able to slide the existing breakers and RCD's along to the left, in order to make way for a single MCB directly off the main switch, which can feed the separate RCD controlled board in the Garage/Shed etc.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Does that board have a High Integrity facility, i.e. three neutral bars? Is there a short spare length of busbar tucked away inside the unit?.
If it does, you should be able to slide the existing breakers and RCD's along to the left, in order to make way for a single MCB directly off the main switch, which can feed the separate RCD controlled board in the Garage/Shed etc.

A long time ago, far back in time, at the beginning of this topic I did make reference to a solution like that. HAving read the nature of his OP, and his declaration that he was not an electrician, I advised him that

To run the circuit directly from the consumer unit would mean serious reconfiguration of the consumer unit.
Not a job for you.

And that remains my advice for this OP. Don't mess around with major configuartions of the consumer unit, unless you know what you are doing. In any case, that course would mandate a new circuit - together with notification requirements - so he would need a registered electrician to do this. In my opinion.

 

[DinoTheDino]

Does that board have a High Integrity facility, i.e. three neutral bars? Is there a short spare length of busbar tucked away inside the unit?.
If it does, you should be able to slide the existing breakers and RCD's along to the left, in order to make way for a single MCB directly off the main switch, which can feed the separate RCD controlled board in the Garage/Shed etc.

Thank you Kai, but as Taylor indicated, far back in time:

As you can possibly tell, i am not an electrician, but have a good understanding of technical matters and a "certain amount" of common sense . I am also aware, Electrics is not a playground!!!!!
The above terms (MCB,CU) are discovered through my own research in the internet.
Any reply would be greatly appreciated, and pretty please, try not to use electricians jargon

With my novice domestic electrics knowledge, despite my above "hint", I think I do understand what Kai means, which is still not good enough for me, to start messing about with professional electrics. (by the way...., I have installed an electric shower 8-9 years ago and it still works fine, with all the "shower rules" adhered, starting from the CU, which tripped when it had to trip and an electrician mate at the time did approved it [but not certified it]. Unfortunately he moved up north and we lost contact)

A long time ago, far back in time, at the beginning of this topic I did make reference to a solution like that. HAving read the nature of his OP, and his declaration that he was not an electrician, I advised him that

.....a long time ago, you make laugh Taylor, nicely put. Sorry Kai, but you stepped in it...

 

[DinoTheDino]

The reason for me asking is, the 45A has a switch that requires a good amount of force to switch on/off whereas the 13A can be switched on/off by the press of a finger. The location of the switch will be behind a cupboard, quite low, and i am afraid if someone is trying to access the (feeding) double socket next to it, might switch it off without realising it. Needless to say the adults in the house are going to be aware of it but you never know.....!

There is another option you might like to consider, and that's a key switch which cannot be operated accidentally. You would need to make up a combination key switch and fuse unit out of a grid range by combining parts such as the following:

Links:
https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MKK4917.html
https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MKK4890.html
https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MKK3702.html
https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MKK3632.html

Plus a suitable back box, of course. That way you can use the key switch to isolate if the need should arise, but there's no chance of accidental switching off.

Hey PBC, coming back to you....!!
I might be using your suggestion as above.

Am I correct in the following: from the living room double socket (feed), earth the Grid Mounting Frame. From the Grid frame, a single 2.5mm earth core to the Wiska weatherproof junction box at the earthing clamp bar, to earth the steel armor.

As far as I could gather, I should be able to wire the 2 SWA cores (L+N) directly to the 20Amp 1 way switch, which means the grid frame will -have- to "accept" 3 x earth(?) (1x from the feed, 1x to the junction box, 1x from the SWA).

Sorry for having have to awaken the subject again!!!
Out of curiosity: are you eligible to vote? I assume you are a British citizen who moved to the US, as John mentioned. Don't answer if its too "private"

Thank you in advance
Dino

 

[PBC_1966]

As far as I could gather, I should be able to wire the 2 SWA cores (L+N) directly to the 20Amp 1 way switch, which means the grid frame will -have- to "accept" 3 x earth(?) (1x from the feed, 1x to the junction box, 1x from the SWA).

I would only extend the inner portion of the SWA from the Wiska box to the fuse/switch assembly if you can do so with the protection of conduit etc. as already discussed earlier. Otherwise just use T&E between them.

You can make use of the earth terminal in the back box as well if it makes things easier - The box and grid should be bonded together anyway,

Out of curiosity: are you eligible to vote? I assume you are a British citizen who moved to the US, as John mentioned. Don't answer if its too "private"

Yes, British citizen now "permanent resident alien" in the U.S. as they put it. As I understand it, I can vote in the U.K. for up to 15 years from my departure.