Smart Meter removal

[JohnW2]

Since this was done during the miners strike ....

It was, but, in terms of the big picture, it is obviously far more common due to network problems. We had a 5-hour cut last week, and I was interested to see that my DNO's website had a very good website, which showed exactly where all the current power failures were and when restoration was expected. It showed that, at the point in time I looked, there were 148 'incidents' resulting in some people being without power in the WPD region.

... I would think there is some where data on deaths due to power failures or restores.

It would be helpful if there were, but I won't be holding my breath. We will be talking about extremely rare events and I'm not at all sure that anyone will have attempted to collect data relating to them ... and, even if they had tried, I doubt that it would be particularly accurate data.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnD]

the suppliers now maintain registers where they try to record the names and addresses of people reliant on equipment such as dialysis machines, hoists for the paralysed, etc. who would be in danger if power failed. They would attempt to help these people in some way.

Power cuts in the UK are now very rare, and at least one company that manufactured, sold and rented stand-by generators has gone out of business.

 

[JohnW2]

You've used the term "sinister" before.

I have, several times, since that is how some people seem to regard some of the possibilities.

I don't see that there is anything "sinister" about a regime which says, for example, "between 06:00 and 24:00 you may not consume more than x kW", or "given the new pricing structure you would benefit if your appliances could negotiate with each other and with the supply infrastructure to decide what runs and when".

I suppose you would have to ask 'them' if they would regard such things as "sinister".

As for the former, if demand comes to outstrip supply (in general, or during certain hours), then some form of rationing is inevitable (even if simply by 'rolling cuts'). 'They' might well think that the latter sounds too much like Big Brother. They would probably prefer to be provided with information on the cost impact of "what appliances run and when", so that they could make their own decisions, rather than allowing "the supply infrastructure" to decide.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

the suppliers now maintain registers where they try to record the names and addresses of people reliant on equipment such as dialysis machines, hoists for the paralysed, etc. who would be in danger if power failed. They would attempt to help these people in some way.

Indeed. By co-incidence, just a couple of days ago I received some blurb about this from WPD, explaining how I could apply to go on their register.

However, those obviously vulnerable people are far from all of the story. As we often discuss in relation to 'separation of circuits', injuries or even deaths can result in perfectly healthy people if they are suddenly 'plunged into darkness', and a good few heat-producing things (and a good few 'machines') will spring back to life on restoration if they were 'on' when power was lost. ... and lots of other (very rare) reasons why power cuts and restorations could present hazards.

Power cuts in the UK are now very rare ...

Large-scale ones, yes. However, as I just wrote, when I had occasion to look last week, my DNO had 148 network faults ('cuts') being worked on at a single point in time.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnD]

if they're small, I'd guess that the chances of any one of thirty million homes having a cut in any ten-year period are quite low.

there will be clusters where the network is poor.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I was in Tescos in Amersham a month or two ago when a power cut (rumoured to be due to a botch-up during some work on the LV network a few miles away) plunged the store into darkness. Or almost - the EM lighting worked. Their standby generator did not, so the car park became a nightmare of trip hazards.

The point is that, as John has experienced, local failures which have nothing to do with generating shortfall or extreme weather can happen at any time.

 

[JohnD]

if they were common, people would pay more attention to stand-by systems.

How many emergency lights are in your house, and where do you keep your generator?

 

[JohnW2]

if they're small, I'd guess that the chances of any one of thirty million homes having a cut in any ten-year period are quite low.

I've certainly experienced a good few of significant duration in recent years, and countless of very short duration (seconds, or a minute or three - not 'cuts' in the true sense).

Kind Regards, John

 

[333rocky333]

I was in Tescos in Amersham a month or two ago when a power cut (rumoured to be due to a botch-up during some work on the LV network a few miles away) plunged the store into darkness. Or almost - the EM lighting worked. Their standby generator did not, so the car park became a nightmare of trip hazards.

I never heard about that, most big tescos have there own substation in the yard, most of there very rare major failures tend to be the air breakers in the store going off for some reason.
I have not done any store where the Generator does the car park, tends to be for the fridge plant and less than half of the store.

Occasionally the generator set up makes things worse,
The store loses one phase in the Generator panel and the 3 phase sensing picks up a missing phase therefore changing over the contactor and turning OFF the other two phases.
Great when the generator works, but occasionally it dont

 

[JohnW2]

if they were common, people would pay more attention to stand-by systems. ... How many emergency lights are in your house ...

Half a dozen or so, plus some 'cross-phase' ones (loss of just one phase is not uncommon).

...and where do you keep your generator?

In my garage, and I actually used it 'in anger' last week (to recharge my laptop battery!)



Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

the suppliers now maintain registers where they try to record the names and addresses of people reliant on equipment such as dialysis machines, hoists for the paralysed, etc. who would be in danger if power failed. They would attempt to help these people in some way.

Power cuts in the UK are now very rare, and at least one company that manufactured, sold and rented stand-by generators has gone out of business.

I don't think so, and to be frank no reason why they should, mothers house has a stair lift and two hoists and they all run on VRLA batteries, there are recharged when parked but it would likely take days before they failed with a power cut.

At home I have emergency lights, but they were fitted years ago, mobile phone, lap top, and other items means even in a power cut there are lights of some kind.

It has been a problem where the call buttons work on the telephone line rather than internet as once the automatic call is dropped it can't be reopened by the call centre. However because it does not need internet it still works with a power cut, not much use now I live with my mother, but before the call centre would ring to tell me if there was a power failure. I suspect the call centres would call an ambulance if required due to power failure.

I have never needed to do it as yet, but I would think I could live in the caravan for around 5 days with no power before the battery failed and all heating stopped. However could not get mother into the caravan so it would depend how long we could keep the house warm, one gas fire requires no electric power and that is same at home and in my father-in-laws house. Other than when they changed my father-in-laws meter to a smart meter I have never seen a gas power cut. I am sure it must happen, but not seen it happen.

Maybe we should fit gas lights! I would think the major problem with a power cut is food poisoning? It is all well and good with quality fridge and freezer where after a power cut it displays the warmest the unit got, but cheaper units just re-freeze and the home owner could be unaware that food had defrosted, it is unlikely this would be recorded as a result of a power failure. I lost a freezer last year, not power failure the motor failed, I heard it go, so left door closed and turned on the one normally used to brew beer in and allowed an hour for it to cool before starting transfer, it was no more than 2 hours since it failed however food in the top had started to defrost, we are told a freezer is OK for around 6 hours, I know that is wrong. OK maybe the chest freezer will be OK but not upright.

It likely depends on where in the cycle the power is lost, if lost at end of defrost cycle likely you only have an hour, chest freezers don't have auto defrost so they would be OK. As to heating again when the power fails, by 6 am mothers house is cool the heating is about to switch back on, a power cut at that point and we would need to move furniture and switch on the gas fire. But heating switches off at 10 pm so I know 8 hours without power would not be a problem heat wise.

However during the miners strike and with hot air central heating and no double glazing the power cuts were a problem heat wise.

 

[JohnW2]

I don't think so, and to be frank no reason why they should, mothers house has a stair lift and two hoists and they all run on VRLA batteries, there are recharged when parked but it would likely take days before they failed with a power cut.

Extract from what came through my letterbox two days ago (apologies for poor photo) ...

Kind Regards, John

 

[Mottie]

However as a whole house it may highlight an unexplained draw where some thing is left on, but all you need to know is something is drawing current when it should not, you really don't need to know how much, just that something is working when it should not be.

That’s how we found out that our tumble drier that is in our shed hadn’t switched off - we put it on before we went out one morning and it was still going 3 hours later when we got home. We probably wouldn’t have noticed until we went to empty it that evening. It was on of those that were catching fire too. We binned it and got a new one.

 

[HawkEye244]

the suppliers now maintain registers where they try to record the names and addresses of people reliant on equipment such as dialysis machines, hoists for the paralysed, etc. who would be in danger if power failed. They would attempt to help these people in some way.

Power cuts in the UK are now very rare, and at least one company that manufactured, sold and rented stand-by generators has gone out of business.

Err John you do realise that suppliers routinely break into houses to force smart/debt meters on people who are the vulnerable type you describe, for not keeping up with their payments? Do you think they give a rats behind about who they do it to? I've seen some completely unlawful stuff from doorstep altercations with british gas, they didn't even have the paperwork to be there, and when confronted they got the police involved and carried on regardless. The most sickening case was of a woman with multiple medical problems including fibromyalgia, and they stood in her kitchen while she was having a panic attack in the other room, with one or two police threatening to arrest her for 'obstruction'.They don't give a fukc. It will only get worse and I suspect government will increasingly act in cohorts with them as the economy becomes steadily worse and worse over the coming years.

 

[JohnD]

Err John you do realise that suppliers routinely break into houses to force smart/debt meters on people who are the vulnerable type you describe

yes of course I do, but they need a court order to break into somebody's house.

When they can do it remotely by the touch of a button, or change the tariff because they are under the impression there is a bill outstanding, I'm sure they will do it more freely.

If you happen to be a new resident, or you live in a house with a similar address, or have a similar name to a defaulter, they will do it to you more often.