smart meters resisted

[ajohn]

The government is pushing them using lies

No more meter readers plus they think we are so stupid when need a little gizmo to show how much is being used. Suppose that might help a little. We've lost ours and the batteries would probably be flat if we found it.

Thanks to the 2 meter problem I did have a visit from a reader - looked to be in part time work.

 

[SimonH2]

The business case for smart meters has all but evaporated. A typical user could save MUCH more money by simply driving a bit more economically !
Engineering group had a talk locally not long ago from an expert in the metering field, and his first slide was of the "MPG display" from his car. He asked for a show of hands as to how many people looked at this in their own cars - quite a large proportion. He then pointed out that to estimated £150/year saving from a lighter right foot would dwarf the now estimated £20 or so (is that the latest figure ?) to be had from smart meters.
He then went on to demolish the arguments being used for them - by way of showing all the elements of savings including in the claims which won't happen.
For example, one projected saving was for the DNOs by using the meters for remote sensing of supply voltages to premises instead of having to install (whether temporary or permanent) dedicated monitoring equipment. Guess what ? Can't be done because ... you'll love this ... the spec they came up with for the meters doesn't have accurate enough voltage measurement & reporting Given that the rise of embedded small scale generation has resulted in a lot of "re thinking" about voltage control, having a voltage probe in every premises could have been rather useful.
IIRC, the ability to tell you what the prices would be for the next few periods was also absent.

As it happens, I'd been to a talk he'd done about 10 years earlier - and it was noticeable that his talk was "rather less positive" due to all the stuff that now wasn't.

But what DOES remain in the business plan is the demand control. When the wind stops, the sun's gone down, and people fancy having tea (or dinner depending on your upbringing) at tea (or dinner) time - then the cost will go up to discourage demand. If that doesn't work, then in extreme you get localised disconnections. 1974 again, but on a more granular basis.

But politicians have been sold on the lies, and now there is too much momentum in the bandwagon for anyone to admit that it's not going where it was first claimed.

 

[SimonH2]

Oh yes, to clarify on the "who does what" thing ...
The DNO (Distribution Network Operator) is responsible for the network from 132kV down to the 240V we get in the house. Their domain includes the main fuse (cut out) but goes no further.
Your supplier is responsible for the the meter and it's connection to the cutout. Most (all ?) suppliers these days subcontract that to a separate meter operator who will supply and maintain the meter.
The user is responsible for the connections to the load side of the meter onwards.

There is some confusion due to the overlap between some of the roles when it comes to removing fuses and resealing. E.g., the DNO is responsible up to the load terminals of the cutout, but the meter operator will normally use engineers trained and equipped to remove the main fuse and re-seal it afterwards - thus giving the impression to some that the meter engineer is somehow "responsible" for the main fuse. Similarly, if you go by the book when having a CU changed, the electrician should get the DNO to come and remove the main fuse while he connects new tails to the meter (and reseal both the main fuse and meter afterwards) - thus giving the impression to some that the DNO is somehow "responsible" for the meter.
Obviously, the anecdotal fact that many electricians remove the main fuse and meter seals themselves further muddies the water over who is responsible for what in the eyes of a typical homeowner.

 

[ajohn]

The person that fitted our meter mentioned that they had to be called out remove and refit the fuse for electicians. Talking to him he had the usual electricians quals plus others and can also do gas. Maybe it was DNO as also fitted an isolator or subcontracted by them. Pass but he did give that impression.

We also had a two gas meters problem. One was removed and had the new flexi fitted. Some one eventually turned up to fit a new one to the meter that remained. As with the other one the flexi they carry wasn't long enough so said can't do it will have to come back. I moaned and suggested he mod'd the pipe work. - Oh ok I have the stuff in the van.

Some months after the gas meter was removed I had a bizarre incomprehensible letter of some outfit or the other about reconnection. Also a man turned up and looked at what was done - maybe 30secs and then sat in his van for around 15min. No idea who he was but the guy who fitted the meter said he wondered what they would think of the installation. We have a disconnected pipe going into the house and I suggested he capped - big grin - yes they will like that. However remove a cap, turn lever and the main discharges into the porch. Not prepared to sort it out entirely in other words.

 

[JohnW2]

The person that fitted our meter mentioned that they had to be called out remove and refit the fuse for electicians.

In most areas, the DNO are, indeed, meant to be called out to do that for electricians ...

Maybe it was DNO as also fitted an isolator or subcontracted by them. Pass but he did give that impression.

As said a number of times before, DNOs do not have anything to do with meters, let alone isolators - so a DNO guy would not even have any meters that he/she could fit!

 

[Leofric]

The government is pushing them using lies. They will NOT save money unless you change your usage of gas/electric which you won't want to do if you don't like being cold. You don't need a smart meter to change your usage if that is what you want. -
I agree, I only agreed because eon kept insisting it was part of the contract to get the cheapest tariff.
Smart meters radiate radio frequency like mobile phones and though there is little health risk there have been cases of smart meters near the CU causing RCD trips when they (the smart meter) are interrogated.

- excuse my ignorance but I presume these smart meters are still located in the external wall cabinets as the existing meters.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Located where the existing meter is.

 

[ajohn]

Located where the existing meter is.

They also add an isolator on the output from the meter. In my case that has made the wiring a bit of a mess. Not that this matters but I am more used to factory electrics and where they have their own electricians all I have seen are very tidy. In fact when our 2nd meter was taken away I told the guy that an electrician who left things like that when I was involved would probably get the sack.

 

[Taylortwocities]

They also add an isolator on the output from the meter.

They don’t normally do that. The smart meter change folk are only required to change existing meter for a smart meter. They neither have the time, inclination or permission (or competence) to add anything.

PS The original smart meter specs included an integrated switch, but it was removed as a cost saving method

 

[AndyPRK]

They may of added an isolated if it feeds 2 CUs

 

[ajohn]

They may of added an isolated if it feeds 2 CUs

What I was told is that it's standard policy so that electrician can work on CU's to save having to call them out to remove the fuse and again later to replace it.

The meters could have been fitted with them but maybe mine which is owned by a French leasing company wanted to save their costs and some one eventually thought calling out some one who can remove and replace a fuse is stupid. It would increase job costs significantly.

The isolator is a standard off the shelf plastic part - seems that has it's interesting aspects for ordinary electricians.

The guy that fitted mine was fully qualified to do anything and on gas as well but no doubt is told to do the job as quickly as possible. The 2nd guy that took our unused meter away muttered something about tails running past the meter. Pass. Sounded like an excuse for the mess to me.

 

[ajohn]

Something else people might want to bear in mind if they have 2 meters as we did each on a separate phase so we have a 2 phase head, The 3rd will be in the lead sheathing just below it. When we moved in there wasn't a per meter standing charge.

I mentioned to the 2nd guy that what I should have done is sent the smart meter guy away and said I wanted a 3 phase meter fitted. He said that I would have to have a 3 phase head as well. Is this bull stuff? If the 3rd phase wasn't connected we wouldn't draw from it but could draw of the 2 phases connected just as we did before. Not sure if these meters can be used this way so asking.

 

[EFLImpudence]

What I was told is that it's standard policy so that electrician can work on CU's to save having to call them out to remove the fuse and again later to replace it.

It is only wanted by electricians. The DNOs and suppliers have no interest in an isolator.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Something else people might want to bear in mind if they have 2 meters as we did each on a separate phase so we have a 2 phase head, The 3rd will be in the lead sheathing just below it. When we moved in there wasn't a per meter standing charge.

I mentioned to the 2nd guy that what I should have done is sent the smart meter guy away and said I wanted a 3 phase meter fitted. He said that I would have to have a 3 phase head as well. Is this bull stuff?

Not bull when using the words correctly. You can't have three-phase without a three-phase 'head'?

If the 3rd phase wasn't connected we wouldn't draw from it but could draw of the 2 phases connected just as we did before. Not sure if these meters can be used this way so asking.

Are you using the word 'phase' correctly?

It was used for a while to mean the Line conductor but now only for actual three-phase supply.

 

[ajohn]

Yes I am using the word phase correctly. Many properties in B'ham have 3 phases running to the property, They come out of the ground and the lead is extended to bring out as many as needed. Ours has 2. 2 spinsters lived here and wanted separate bills but didn't convert to flats. 240v is obtained from neutral and one phase so the fact that one phase isn't connected to a 3 phase meter shouldn't matter. When 3 phases are connected there is no way of knowing how much 240v is drawn from each.