Solar panel install in Southampton area at cost for MCS

[Chri5]

Try to convince BAS (and me) that PV works !

Some true headline figures:-

Cost of kit
Cost of installation
25 year maintenance plan
365 (maybe split in to the 4 seasons) showing generation levels for 12/16 panel system.


One big question relates to the PV cell life, do you use a product that is guaranteed over the full period / life ?

What happens regarding cleaning dirt and bird poo from the units ?

If UK Gov change the tariff in a decade down to the 12p kwh 'average' cost, how would you protect your clients 'investment' ?


I'm all ears, happy for you as a reseller to prove that ROI does exist. At the moment many believe PV is snake oil and that only huge installations on mass spaces such as flat block roofs will ever be viable.

Please, please defend your corner and try to sort myths from hard fact.

Is your silence / refusal to respond a key indicator that you are selling snake oil ?

I sorry, but if you are unable to give a true commercial response to the questions raised then I (and others) are likely to be set with the current opinion that PV is, at best only to offer comfort to green eco peeps whilst costing more then simply using the existing suppliers energy.

At nest I've seen figures suggesting a 4kw system might generate £600 pa 'profit'. Problem is the general reluctance to accept that panel and system servicing and part replacement with a 25 year ROI will retain such 'profit'.

Or in simple speak, the profit will not be there due to cost of maintaining the system.

 

[ajstoneservices]

Given the very large sums of money being poured into the free PV market by big business, would anyone be wise to listen to you and bas or follow the money men

 

[Chri5]

Given the very large sums of money being poured into the free PV market by big business, would anyone be wise to listen to you and bas or follow the money men

Commercial operation based on cost to them (no 50% PV mark up) might make the service viable.

I'm talking from a joe public point with marked up cost of install and a service life of 25 years.

Are the panel guaranteed by the makers or suppliers for 25 years of GB weathering ?

Is a routine clean 4 times a year included in the panel / set up cost ?


It's one thing to set up as a owner / supplier renting or leasing large roof spaces and a whole different thing to sell to a client, maintain for a client and still offer 'profit' to the client each year !

I know of a phone supplier that will give a free system to uni hostels- 5000 phones, no problem BUT there is a yearly charge to the student and over 5 years the investment is paid, and over 15 there's fantastic profit.

The difference is that maintaining voice systems costs pennies. What I'm asking isn't anything other than any prudent potential PV customer. I'll retain my thoughts that an absence of response is an admission that longer term PV is not viable for private ownership due to unknowns:-

Service cost over product life of 25 years
That the 41.3p tariff could disappear as quickly as it arrived
UK weather / UV output is moderate at best

As mentioned I'm all ears, but believers will have to justify their faith that such installations will show real profit and advantage.

Please prove me wrong !

 

[ajstoneservices]

Given the very large sums of money being poured into the free PV market by big business, would anyone be wise to listen to you and bas or follow the money men

Applies equally to domestic installations. If there isn't any money to be made big business won't be there will it. They will have put the resources in to make sure they'll be able to take money out for the next 25 years.

50% mark up on PV

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I hear your concerns, but your opinion is just that and backed up by no hard fact(s) just a pessimistic attitude.

Then provide some hard facts which show that PV actually does work, does produce significant environmental benefits, is an economically sound proposition and that funding it via FIT schemes won't put up the cost of grid electricity.

We live in a capitalist society, we will always have the 'haves' and the 'have nots'.

Yup - and if you continue to exploit the latter for the benefit of the former I will continue to call you a parasite, for that is just what you are.

What are the best conditions for pv?

As ye cannae change the laws of physics I suggest its where the solar energy reaching ground level is consistently high. i.e. not a country between 50° and 59° North with predominantly wet and cloudy weather.

What happens when demand increases for pv?

What would happen to the "economics" of the FIT scheme if everyone in the country went for it?

More to the point, if you removed the distorting effect of FITs (the existence of which prove beyond any doubt that PV is not economically sound) how would demand look then?

What are the consequences of introducing a renewable mindset into the general public?

The consequences of encouraging people to install PV are that they'll think they are doing good via renewables when in reality they are doing SFA.

Worse, it will make them less disposed to renewables which might work better, such as tidal barrages, off-shore wind farms etc because they'll think "don't need any of that, just put solar panels on the roof".

PV DOES NOT WORK IN THIS COUNTRY.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Given the very large sums of money being poured into the free PV market by big business, would anyone be wise to listen to you and bas or follow the money men

That would depend on whether they have a social conscience, or whether they are prepared to become charlatans and parasites in return for money.

The "free PV" market is not free - it is paid for by OAPs and the disabled who can't afford to heat their houses, it is paid for by single mums in damp flats...

And you think that taking money from people like that so that you can have a totally unjustified warm feeling about doing good is OK?

 

[Chri5]

Applies equally to domestic installations. If there isn't any money to be made big business won't be there will it. They will have put the resources in to make sure they'll be able to take money out for the next 25 years.

50% mark up on PV

In a debate the idea is to offer argument based on fact- please try to offer some support for your mindset.

As already mentioned I'm open to people offering a different angle on the subject of PV, but you don't seem prepared to bother. If that is the case please stop posting, it wastes reading time and offers (as yet) no sensible basis for PV.

As for 50% mark up, sorry I should have made that clear it's gross rather than net and is required to offer some payback for the PV set up, ISO 9000 and scheme member costings. At the end I'd hope PV installers do make some profit for supply only setups- If they don't, why would they bother ?

 

[ajstoneservices]

Worse, it will make them less disposed to renewables which might work better, such as tidal barrages, off-shore wind farms etc

So you're quite happy for us (sorry the poor) to pay more for wind or tidal generated power becuase it[/b]might work

 

[ajstoneservices]

Applies equally to domestic installations. If there isn't any money to be made big business won't be there will it. They will have put the resources in to make sure they'll be able to take money out for the next 25 years.

50% mark up on PV

In a debate the idea is to offer argument based on fact- please try to offer some support for your mindset.

As already mentioned I'm open to people offering a different angle on the subject of PV, but you don't seem prepared to bother. If that is the case please stop posting, it wastes reading time and offers (as yet) no sensible basis for PV.

As for 50% mark up, sorry I should have made that clear it's gross rather than net and is required to offer some payback for the PV set up, ISO 9000 and scheme member costings. At the end I'd hope PV installers do make some profit for supply only setups- If they don't, why would they bother ?

What's the point in trying to debate anything with you or bas. You've both made it repeatedly clear that you are against PV in the same way that Mary Whitehouse was against filth on tv.

 

[ajstoneservices]

Given the very large sums of money being poured into the free PV market by big business, would anyone be wise to listen to you and bas or follow the money men

That would depend on whether they have a social conscience

Seem s highly unlikely.

The "free PV" market is not free - it is paid for by OAPs and the disabled who can't afford to heat their houses, it is paid for by single mums in damp flats...

So they can afford to heat their homes with our existing power generators.

And you think that taking money from people like that so that you can have a totally unjustified warm feeling about doing good is OK?

If I have any warm feelings they will be entirely justified.

 

[Chri5]

What's the point in trying to debate anything with you or bas. You've both made it repeatedly clear that you are against PV in the same way that Mary Whitehouse was against filth on tv.

How wrong your statement is !

I have a 6m x 7m flat roof and I'd be happy to consider £20k of PV work if anyone could show profit for me !

You really can't backup you assertions can you ? That's why you seem happy to promote PV but are not prepared to prove via factual details on cost over product life.

You must be one of those that are susceptible to believing everything you read from PV marketing material.
Some months ago I posted "PV is there a business case" on this forum and my mindset was open, but prudent. As yet neither you nor anyone else who promotes PV as a positive benefit seem able to backup you (seemingly deluded) claims.

Again, I'm all ears to you proving otherwise !

 

[ajstoneservices]

I read your previous post and saw your available roof space. That pile looks better suited to the end of a garden

You and I know you don't want PV so who's deluded

 

[ban-all-sheds]

So you're quite happy for us (sorry the poor) to pay more for wind or tidal generated power becuase it[/b]might work

Better that than paying more so that a private individual can put a toy on his roof that doesn't work at all, surely?

It remains to be seen how well tidal and wind will play in the long term, but they hold out a great deal more promise of being worthwhile than PV microgeneration does.

Electricity prices are going to have to rise, but why should they rise disproportionately more for those least able to pay?

 

[poheZ]

When i am not putting up PV i am buying something from Tescos, so i guess i am a parasite all the time!

 

[ban-all-sheds]

What's the point in trying to debate anything with you or bas. You've both made it repeatedly clear that you are against PV in the same way that Mary Whitehouse was against filth on tv.

No, I'm against it because it doesn't work.

Feel free to advance the debate by showing that it does.

That would depend on whether they have a social conscience

Seem s highly unlikely.

Do you class yourself as someone without, and are you proud of it?

So they can afford to heat their homes with our existing power generators.

No they can't, so why make it even worse for them by making their electricity suppliers buy pretend electricity at vastly inflated prices?

If I have any warm feelings they will be entirely justified.

Best not look for such feelings then from the installation of PV panels on your roof as a worthwhile form of microgeneration.