Solar panel install in Southampton area at cost for MCS

[ban-all-sheds]

Do you only ever read you're own posts

No, I read all of them.

Including yours, wherein I've not seen any figures from you which defend the industry despite the fact that you don't want to see it criticised.

I did see this though:

PV produces little power per m2 and £ invested. Without the benefit of the FIT it wouldn't make financial sense in most cases.

In which case the whole industry is over-selling, the whole industry is ripping people off, and as the "benefit" of FITs is paid for by people who already struggle to afford electricity then the whole industry are immoral parasites.

 

[ajstoneservices]

Do you only ever read you're own posts

No, I read all of them.

Including yours, wherein I've not seen any figures from you which defend the industry despite the fact that you don't want to see it criticised.

Could that be because I haven't attempted to give any.

I did see this though:

PV produces little power per m2 and £ invested. Without the benefit of the FIT it wouldn't make financial sense in most cases.

Seems pretty accurate to me what part of that do you have trouble with.

In which case the whole industry is over-selling, the whole industry is ripping people off, and as the "benefit" of FITs is paid for by people who already struggle to afford electricity then the whole industry are immoral parasites.

I very much doubt that's true as much as I doubt you're the paragon of virtue you claim to be.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Could that be because I haven't attempted to give any.

Yup.

But you don't like them to be criticised.

You support their methods of making money even though you think that it's highly unlikely that they have any social conscience.

Seems pretty accurate to me what part of that do you have trouble with.

I don't have a problem with any of it (although in the context of people putting PV panels on the roofs of grid connected houses I'm not sure I agree with the implication in "Without the benefit of the FIT it wouldn't make financial sense in most cases" that there are some cases where it would).

So you don't think the companies (and therefore the individuals working for them) have any social conscience, and you don't think that the product they are selling is any good.

And yet...

In which case the whole industry is over-selling, the whole industry is ripping people off, and as the "benefit" of FITs is paid for by people who already struggle to afford electricity then the whole industry are immoral parasites.

I very much doubt that's true

How can it NOT be true?

as much as I doubt you're the paragon of virtue you claim to be.

I haven't claimed to be, but that's irrelevant, as this isn't about me, it's about the companies selling a useless product and in the process taking money from people already short of it to make their useless product more attractive to their customers.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

t****r

At least I give one.

Unlike you.

 

[ajstoneservices]

I'm not going to the trouble of quoting this late

Criticise all you like.

Social conscience and making money, does that work? Bloke who lived next door to us some years back worked for a number of large charities where he was paid almost twice the average wage at that time for fund raising, immoral by you're standards?

Had you added off grid instead of avoiding it you would have answered you're own question.

You say PV's no good doesn't work I haven't. I have little doubt that PV will continue to improve in efficiency given continued investment in much the same way the solar thermal collectors have in recent years. No investment will = no improvement.

Those that have chosen to invest in PV are making money from it via the FIT so they have not been ripped off. The fit will be a better investment than many for sometime yet.

I guess you know that the poor have to pay over the odds for pretty much everything, that's life as they say.

 

[ajstoneservices]

t****r

At least I give one.

Unlike you.

I'm sure you're always at it

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Social conscience and making money, does that work?

Why shouldn't it?

How immoral and anti-social are you prepared to be in the way you earn yours?

Bloke who lived next door to us some years back worked for a number of large charities where he was paid almost twice the average wage at that time for fund raising, immoral by you're standards?

That depends on how effective he was.

Had you added off grid instead of avoiding it you would have answered you're own question.

Off-grid is irrelevant - we aren't talking about that.

You say PV's no good doesn't work I haven't.

Yes you have:

PV produces little power per m2 and £ invested.

I have little doubt that PV will continue to improve in efficiency given continued investment in much the same way the solar thermal collectors have in recent years. No investment will = no improvement.

Where's the incentive if the economics are so distorted by FITs that it doesn't matter if the systems don't work?

Those that have chosen to invest in PV are making money from it via the FIT so they have not been ripped off.

We are ALL being ripped off every time a new FIT exploiter is signed up.

The fit will be a better investment than many for sometime yet.

It's not supposed to be an investment, particularly not one where the interest is taken out of the pockets of people who don't have enough in the first place.

I guess you know that the poor have to pay over the odds for pretty much everything, that's life as they say.

And you think it's perfectly OK for that to be made even worse by doing something which benefits nobody except the parasites?

There will be old people who die this winter because of FITs.

You callous and immoral ****.

 

[mointainwalker]

@ajstone

I am surprised by the tone of your posts because what I remember of your previous forum contributions were reasonable and informative.

That you now come out with such a childish attitude and statements like :

I'm not able to teach the deaf, dumb and blind.

Who really cares whether you want PV or not. I don't give a monkey's. If you want to buy PV then get you're self busy and find someone that wants to sell it to you, I don't.

Your whole contribution to this thread had been similar, just like a kid in the playground shouting " I know something you don't but i'm not telling you.

 

[Chri5]

There's two types of sales- the informed, conscientious and add value type. then there's the Arther Daily school.

Arthur doesn't care and looks no further than instant profit without any concern for the client, for the sold product or post sale after care.

It is clear that you are the latter. Worse thing being that you have no real knowledge on the viability of the products you sell and install to offer value over the term of 'investment'.

Your silence speaks volumes, and I'm sorry to say that without exception your response to the requests to back up your industries claims have been non existent. A clear indicator that our critic of PV is nearer to the truth than the sales babble you and your industry is full of.

As for your comment

I have little doubt that PV will continue to improve in efficiency given continued investment in much the same way the solar thermal collectors have in recent years. No investment will = no improvement.

So are you saying that you are selling product that isn't much use at the moment, but in a few years (maybe, maybe, maybe)we can sell you new generation high output PV panels that might actually be viable in the UK and might offer an ROI similar to the "up-talk, sales baloney" we use now to get sales ?

Arthur would say take this Mini 1 D at the moment and the minute I get a hydrogen fuel cell car, I'd do a swap-age scheme for you

 

[NotHimAgain]

Any system of energy supply that requires financial support from the general public, for development or deployment, must be of benefit to the majority of the general public. If not, it should not be given or seek public subsidy.

In simple terms the proposed system must, IMO, past what I will call the Coronation Street Test . I use that example as most will now be visualising a row, or similar configuration, of high density housing units, such as are found throughout the UK in urban areas. Such housing is used by a high proportion of the general public.

This type of housing does not generally have large south facing roofs or large garden areas, so local generation, if it is to be used at all, must not require:
1) Much space within the building;
2) Large surface area - either roof or ground;
3) Special orientation to the sun or other energy source.

PV and similar systems could never pass this test and so should be completely self-financing.

I said earlier that I am qualified to install PV – this is actually true - I have completed a 3 day course. This was at the request of a client with a view to me becoming involved in future course delivery (they paid ). At the time I did it - PV had no subsidy and, at that time, no future - which is why I never took it any further. I will not be taking it up again now that it has a subsidy, as I actually believe that the ‘Coronation Street Test’ is valid.

One other point to note – as I mentioned earlier the PV gang have now realised that the next step is to couple PV to a storage system – they are calling it ‘time shifting’ . This will require a massive investment in batteries, much pollution and a great deal of storage space, etc, etc. If that were not enough the FIT would then be obsolete .

See here
http://www.electricalreview.co.uk/features/119371/Batteries_-_Time-shifting_domestic_PV_POWER_.html

 

[ajstoneservices]

@ajstone

Your whole contribution to this thread had been similar, just like a kid in the playground shouting " I know something you don't but i'm not telling you.

MM, I'm surprised you see it that way.

What do you want me to tell you that it doesn't work, would that please you?
Nothing said on here would change either Bas's or Chris's minds. I've tried, it's clearly pointless. See any of their previous posts on several threads you will see that their club is totally against solar, granted occasionally bas will concede that solar thermal works.

And you, what have you added to this thread? an attempt to prove that solar doesn't work by posting a link to a story where a couple were ripped off by smart energy with a poorly designed, poorly installed, overpriced system that today would cost around £2500 installed. I have been involved in the solar industry since 2005 I can honestly say we have not had a single complaint my to or about us.

As I'm typing this Adam has arrived back from one of our installs where the customers are more than happy. They live in the sticks have oil fired heating and not used their boiler for hot water since March. I believe we ripped them off to the tune of £2500 for that system. So forgive me if I'm not too interested in replying to the rubbish being spouted continually by bas and Chris. It wasn't that long ago bas was saying solar thermal works at night. I'm waiting for him to tell us where PV is best suited to and why.

 

[ajstoneservices]

There's two types of sales- the informed, conscientious and add value type. then there's the Arther Daily school.

Arthur doesn't care and looks no further than instant profit without any concern for the client, for the sold product or post sale after care.

It is clear that you are the latter. Worse thing being that you have no real knowledge on the viability of the products you sell and install to offer value over the term of 'investment'.

Your silence speaks volumes, and I'm sorry to say that without exception your response to the requests to back up your industries claims have been non existent. A clear indicator that our critic of PV is nearer to the truth than the sales babble you and your industry is full of.

As for your comment

I have little doubt that PV will continue to improve in efficiency given continued investment in much the same way the solar thermal collectors have in recent years. No investment will = no improvement.

So are you saying that you are selling product that isn't much use at the moment, but in a few years (maybe, maybe, maybe)we can sell you new generation high output PV panels that might actually be viable in the UK and might offer an ROI similar to the "up-talk, sales baloney" we use now to get sales ?

Arthur would say take this Mini 1 D at the moment and the minute I get a hydrogen fuel cell car, I'd do a swap-age scheme for you

So dumb gets dumber

 

[ajstoneservices]

There will be old people who die this winter because of FITs.

That one line speaks volumes about you, you lying scrounger no wonder you're so reviled on this and many other forums, how many are you banned from now?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

That one line speaks volumes about you, you lying scrounger no wonder you're so reviled on this and many other forums, how many are you banned from now?

Would you care to provide evidence that proves I'm a liar, or a scrounger?

Or alternatively retract the allegations and apologise.

And if I am reviled, it is by people who don't like the truth about them pointed out, and who think they should be immune from criticism, so I'm not likely to care that they don't like me, considering the low opinion I have of their character in the first place.

 

[ajstoneservices]

PV DOES NOT WORK IN THIS COUNTRY.

That is untrue.

PV produces little power per m2 and £ invested. Without the benefit of the FIT it wouldn't make financial sense in most cases.

That is true.

There will be old people who die this winter because of FITs.

Another of your lies.

You callous and immoral ****.

That's an opinion you're entitled to. Mine is that you're a proven liar that I believe is a scrounger too.