Someone is trying to start a war in the Ukraine, It's NOT Russia (edit: yes it is)

[ajohn]

Putin does not have enough forces to completely occupy and subjugate the entire country

Your too sucked in by the west's own propaganda. As a wiser than normal commentator said now that the convoy is moving we might find out what it is for in the next few days. Or maybe it really does have problems.

Migs - 2 military bases taken out well in the west of Ukraine. If stuff goes in by roads what do you think will happen to the roads?

Sanction - mostly the G7. What about the rest. Oligarchs wealth - mostly assets just like the bloke who owns Amazon. Seems they will have problems with boating holidays and property speculation in London. The assets are still in Russia also a lot of western ones. This one's page is worth a read. Our lot seem to think I have forgotten that he said sell Chelsea returns to charity. Now we must make sure he doesn't get his hands on anything from the sale.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Abramovich

Long war - well it hasn't reached the duration of some the west have been involved in of late - yet.

Putin and co can't work out what the effect of sanctions will be on the west and themselves?

Of interest
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_oligarch

 

[JP_]

Sanctions might not hurt Russia much if China agrees to buy what it usually ships to Europe and America.

 

[bernardgreen]

After bombing health centres and hospitals 63 times in a week

Using rockets or bombs to kill civilians who are not close to you is not the same as killing civilians who are standing next to you.

 

[ajohn]

yes reports of up to 16000 (????)
Fighters going to help the Russians

Prepared to go in not actually in. To much of that might turn out as good as aiding people against Russian's in Afghanistan or similar in Syria by the west.

One day you may find this can be played
https://www.aljazeera.com/program/featured-documentaries/2021/11/22/assad-master-of-chaos

Mind you 45min. Most people wont spend more than 5min looking at situations like these. Poor old Assad currently can't find anybody to rebuild the place for him.

 

[transam]

Your too sucked in by the west's own propaganda. As a wiser than normal commentator said now that the convoy is moving we might find out what it is for in the next few days. Or maybe it really does have problems.

Migs - 2 military bases taken out well in the west of Ukraine. If stuff goes in by roads what do you think will happen to the roads?

Sanction - mostly the G7. What about the rest. Oligarchs wealth - mostly assets just like the bloke who owns Amazon. Seems they will have problems with boating holidays and property speculation in London. The assets are still in Russia also a lot of western ones. This one's page is worth a read. Our lot seem to think I have forgotten that he said sell Chelsea returns to charity. Now we must make sure he doesn't get his hands on anything from the sale.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Abramovich

Long war - well it hasn't reached the duration of some the west have been involved in of late - yet.

Putin and co can't work out what the effect of sanctions will be on the west and themselves?

Of interest
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_oligarch

not at all

putin does not have enough forces in the ukraine to occupy the country , nowt to do with propaganda

 

[transam]

Prepared to go in not actually in. To much of that might turn out as good as aiding people against Russian's in Afghanistan or similar in Syria by the west.

One day you may find this can be played
https://www.aljazeera.com/program/featured-documentaries/2021/11/22/assad-master-of-chaos

Mind you 45min. Most people wont spend more than 5min looking at situations like these. Poor old Assad currently can't find anybody to rebuild the place for him.

listen up i do not say its factual hence question marks

and reports suggest that they have already used thermobaric bombs ??

and the US and Brit intel are concerned about chemical weapons

 

[ajohn]

Maybe because the troops he has got have a degree of humanity and have concerns about civilians dying. Some mercenaries are ruthless killers when they are used to subdue a civilian population

What Russia appears to be doing fits in with that. They appear to be well short of 200,000 civilians killed in Iraq in about 3 weeks. TBH this area annoys me a bit because of the rhetoric. Wars kill civilians who ever causes them. Usually known a collateral damage as it sounds nicer. In Ukraine what is a civilian with a gun who is using it?

 

[ajohn]

not at all

putin does not have enough forces in the ukraine to occupy the country , nowt to do with propaganda

No one knows what Russia intends to do. Afraid I have always seen it as a what will happen will due to that aspect.

Russia's army has 280,000 personnel and its armed forces have 900,000 overall, according to the International Institute for Strategic Studies, as compared with a total of about 210,000 in Ukraine's armed forces (with more in reserves and now being recruited)

According to Michael Knights, a high estimate shows the Iraqi Army capable of fielding one million men and 850,000 reservists, 5,500 tanks, 3,000 artillery pieces, 700 combat aircraft and helicopters; it held 53 divisions, 20 special-forces brigades, and several regional militias, and had a strong air defense.

One estimate made in late 2006 put the total at more than 650,000 between the U.S.-led invasion and October 2006, but many other reported estimates put the figures for the same period at about 40,000 to 50,000.

The US invaded Iraq in 2003 amid its global “war on terror”, reaching a peak of about 170,000 soldiers in the country in 2007 before withdrawing forces in 2011

All as clear as custard isn't it.

 

[securespark]

Apparently the UN has said that chemical and biological weapons are not a threat, but I didn't see the reason why.

I dunno if I have misunderstood the chat but there seemed to be talk of getting Middle Eastern soldiers in to fight?

 

[ajohn]

Russia has played the biolab card at the UN. No one denied Ukraine have some - pass I have no idea. One interesting fact. The USA refused to back a multinational checking system as used on chemical weapons.

Some of the things Russia mentioned are standard practice in public health research. USA says Russia will use them false flag style. Chemical I assume.

 

[albaPhenom]

This talk of Syrian and Central African Republic fighters travelling to Ukraine is nonsensical, just another terrible idea by Putin.

Yeah let’s send a bunch of Syrians and Africans to fight in unfamiliar territory in the freezing cold of Ukraine … the Russians are struggling enough, it would be a slaughter.

As for all this talk about how many men, vehicles and equipment individual nations have… it all just seems meaningless to me when the actual rubber meets the road.

The US weapons and tech advantage over Vietnam and Afghanistan didn’t stop them getting worn down and defeated there and Putins just bought himself a brand new Afghanistan.

The more I think about this the more I’m convinced this is a completely unwinnable war for Russia, it will take a terrible toll on Ukraine but with other nations feeding them weapons, they’ll just turn this into a war of attrition with ongoing attacks.

Then they might find some trouble at home too, plenty of Ukrainians in Russia… let’s not forget the Beslan School Massacre as a result of the Chechen War.

 

[Vinty]

Wars kill civilians who ever causes them. Usually known a collateral damage as it sounds nicer.

The diffence is that when one side kill civilians their media describes these deaths as a tragedy, when the other side kills civilians it is described as an atrocity.

 

[transam]

No one knows what Russia intends to do. Afraid I have always seen it as a what will happen will due to that aspect.

Russia's army has 280,000 personnel and its armed forces have 900,000 overall, according to the International Institute for Strategic Studies, as compared with a total of about 210,000 in Ukraine's armed forces (with more in reserves and now being recruited)

According to Michael Knights, a high estimate shows the Iraqi Army capable of fielding one million men and 850,000 reservists, 5,500 tanks, 3,000 artillery pieces, 700 combat aircraft and helicopters; it held 53 divisions, 20 special-forces brigades, and several regional militias, and had a strong air defense.

One estimate made in late 2006 put the total at more than 650,000 between the U.S.-led invasion and October 2006, but many other reported estimates put the figures for the same period at about 40,000 to 50,000.

The US invaded Iraq in 2003 amid its global “war on terror”, reaching a peak of about 170,000 soldiers in the country in 2007 before withdrawing forces in 2011

All as clear as custard isn't it.

the Russians do not have the troop numbers to occupy the entire country

they had half a million in chzechlosvakia a small country and almost zero resistance ?

you seem to believe a lot propaganda

 

[transam]

As for the Iraqi invasion on the initial invasion there was virtually zero resistance from the Iraqi army

the same is not happening in Ukraine

so this comparison is total nonsense

 

[ajohn]

This talk of Syrian and Central African Republic fighters travelling to Ukraine

Not according to longer reports on it. Some parties eg Syria have said they want to come and help Russia. Putin's response from his own lips. Fine we will have to look at getting them there. He must have been listening to Trust although getting these people there is likely to be tricky.