Someone is trying to start a war in the Ukraine, It's NOT Russia (edit: yes it is)
- Thread starter The Samaritan
- Start date
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Only thing is, can we all be united in imposing hard sanctions? Countries like Germany and some former Soviet countries are completely reliant on Russian oil and gas. If the taps are turned off, the lights may go out in these countries.
@Vinty
"If you want to understand Putin’s twisted rationale and thinking — and have the stomach for 5,000 words from him — then you could go back to his essay from July on the historical unity of Russian and Ukrainian people. It makes very clear that this is not fundamentally about Nato. The fact is that Putin does not really accept the idea of Ukraine as an independent country."
ft.com
"If you want to understand Putin’s twisted rationale and thinking — and have the stomach for 5,000 words from him — then you could go back to his essay from July on the historical unity of Russian and Ukrainian people. It makes very clear that this is not fundamentally about Nato. The fact is that Putin does not really accept the idea of Ukraine as an independent country."
ft.com
I believe so.
When the Berlin Wall collapsed, he said that troops and tanks should have attacked the demonstrators
The only reason the citizens of East Berlin were not machine-gunned into submission was that no East German politician or General was willing to give the order, and risk being strung up from a lamp-post.
The Russian Empire is still too submissive to disobey.
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Tyrants typically have zero sympathy for human life, including their own people.
What we need to hope is those around him essentially start to lose confidence in his leadership. e.g. the open letter from 150 senior Russian officials.
Putin might simply disappear ...
Not sure how large the anti war sentiments are in Russia but it takes guts to get out there. I hope more go out.
Re Ukraine soldiers - tanks etc - pictures of them on the road, waiting for the Russians - are they not aware of Russian air superiority??
My sources told me yesterday that their vehicles from what he say were taken out from the air.
The sooner Ukrainians give up now the less bloodshed and IMO - Put will control Donbas to Crimea and the rest via a puppet and chat with the usa and the west.
Re Ukraine soldiers - tanks etc - pictures of them on the road, waiting for the Russians - are they not aware of Russian air superiority??
My sources told me yesterday that their vehicles from what he say were taken out from the air.
The sooner Ukrainians give up now the less bloodshed and IMO - Put will control Donbas to Crimea and the rest via a puppet and chat with the usa and the west.
Her death party in Trafalgar square was filled with tears of laughter and joy!
Unlike the tears of the tens of thousands (and their families) in the UK who met an early death due to her policies!
Eh?!?
There is some more sensible analysis around. Putin wants talks and some changes. Nothing happens. So he moves loads of troops into position. Still no results from talks. He can only leave things like this so long. Nothing happens so he invades. They now say they don't want to occupy only destroy Ukraine's military capability. They still want talks.............................................................
To me this means that the west could be dead certain that they will invade. The only question was when.
A military analyst. He sees that what Russia is doing makes a lot of sense - where troops are etc. The terms and reasons used fit in with standard aspects mentioned when wars are discussed. Outflanking and surrounding etc.
Reporters are now saying this and that is being reported rather than as fact.
One of our ministers reckons he knows how many Russians have been killed with an accuracy of 1.
Our lot are saying that they will send more arms. How to get them there? What do you think will happen to a UK aircraft if it flies in Russian controlled airspace?
Some - it seems Tory want the UK to establish a no fly zone over Ukraine.
Various noises about SWIFT and the use of it as a sanction - forget it. It seems there are all sorts of complications including maybe handing Russia other countries assets. Some annalists also probably correctly say sanctions will take a very long time to have any effect. The ones that can be applied will cause inflation in the west. All sorts of areas.
Damaged building. BBC have said due to something being shot down - so far. There will be plenty of damaged building about anyway but those were occupied.
Ukraine is asking it's people to take up guns and make molotov cocktails. Fight to death. Few mins ago a Ukrainian politician asked about doing that - she didn't want to reply and looked sick when she said yes. Piggy in the middle. Martial law - men in an age range to remain there.
To me this means that the west could be dead certain that they will invade. The only question was when.
A military analyst. He sees that what Russia is doing makes a lot of sense - where troops are etc. The terms and reasons used fit in with standard aspects mentioned when wars are discussed. Outflanking and surrounding etc.
Reporters are now saying this and that is being reported rather than as fact.
One of our ministers reckons he knows how many Russians have been killed with an accuracy of 1.Our lot are saying that they will send more arms. How to get them there? What do you think will happen to a UK aircraft if it flies in Russian controlled airspace?
Some - it seems Tory want the UK to establish a no fly zone over Ukraine.
Various noises about SWIFT and the use of it as a sanction - forget it. It seems there are all sorts of complications including maybe handing Russia other countries assets. Some annalists also probably correctly say sanctions will take a very long time to have any effect. The ones that can be applied will cause inflation in the west. All sorts of areas.
Damaged building. BBC have said due to something being shot down - so far. There will be plenty of damaged building about anyway but those were occupied.
Ukraine is asking it's people to take up guns and make molotov cocktails. Fight to death. Few mins ago a Ukrainian politician asked about doing that - she didn't want to reply and looked sick when she said yes. Piggy in the middle. Martial law - men in an age range to remain there.
Latest reports saying Putin has offered to enter into talks with Ukrainian government (with a Chinese delegation in toe) to discuss options ...
(source, BBC News)
(source, BBC News)
I'll add to the last post. If the west's power brokers back off they will loose face so we will probably never know if there is a solution all round. Tough for some of the people involved. The EU expansion is a business thing and some countries are not happy about that either.
A solution to what?
To the fact that Ukraine is a nation, and Putin thinks it should be a colony?
That has been on for some time. In fact there has been mention of the Ukraine president talking to Putin
What we will probably see next is the siege of Kiev. Following up from that maybe methods of making that even more uncomfortable.
Must admit the death toll so far is nothing remotely like, Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan and Syria. I'd expect that to continue - hopefully.
On this: there might, if the second-tier rich Russians are squeezed badly enough, come a tipping point where the police couldn't arrest and 'disappear' everyone who protested. When that point is reached, the police are now concerned about 'collaborator recriminations'. When that happens, Putin is on shaky ground.
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