As I said, 'these things' ("pitfalls") happen but my (obviously 'rhetorical') question was pointing out that there's really nothing we could do about it other than to completely stop using metal trunking.
Steel container below the fusebox?
- Thread starter jero
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The insulated spacers, I suggested, make the concept much safer.
I'm sure that's true - but are the bits of wood/plastic you mentioned actually supplied with the trunking, and do people routinely use them?
None ever supplied, I used to make my own simply because they made packing lots of cables, into trunking, much easier and of course safer, less fault prone.
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That's what I suspected, so not very satisfactory (arguably 'not fit for purpose'?)
Fair enough but, as above,you shouldn't really have to.
I usually aim for 20mm plastic conduit, there are always offcuts and so easy to cut.
As mentioned @JohnW2 I.S. 10101 correctly states in Rule 526.3.1 that "Wiring connections shall not be made inside trunking". This was previously (also correctly) stated in ET 101 as Rule 526.2.3
"connections" might refer to temporary connections - permanent connections, if deemed as good as the original conductor/insulation etc such as twist, solder, sleeve or possibly wago type or not. I suppose it depends on the rationale of the reason for such a rule.
I would deffo not use screw connectors and would not construct with any joint at all but repair? I suppose it all depends although ideally renew the whole run if possible.
Any permanent joint must be at least as strong as the original in electrical and mechanical properties an as well insulated for a start or it is a no go.
I would deffo not use screw connectors and would not construct with any joint at all but repair? I suppose it all depends although ideally renew the whole run if possible.
Any permanent joint must be at least as strong as the original in electrical and mechanical properties an as well insulated for a start or it is a no go.
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Who knows? However, it would be a little odd if any rules/regulations made 'dispensations' in relation to aspects of electrical installations that were 'temporary' - not the least because 'temporary' often evolves into something far longer-lasting. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any rules/regs which make such a 'dispensation'.
Furthermore, even if 'temporary was temporary', it would also be a bit odd if any rules/regs were based on the concept that a perceived hazard was acceptable if it didn't persist for long, but not otherwise. That would be a bit like saying (incorrectly) that it was permissible to not wear a seat belt for very short journeys!
Kind Regards, John
I agree that temporary connections should not be considered as less stringent then permanent connections , indeed the correct way is that they should be at least as good as such and should be inspected, at least as often if not more so, than permanent connections. In real life though, we know not does happen, indeed not considered as such.. so yes John you are absolutely correct..
Temporary things often become more permanent than permanent things too.
Temporary things often become more permanent than permanent things too.
All agreed - you're essentially echoing what I wrote.
However, that does not alter what I also wrote about doubting your suggestion that the regulations being referred to by some may relate specifically to temporary connections - since, as per what we've agreed(per above) it would be pretty odd if any regs made a distinction between 'temporary' and 'permanent' things!
Kind Regards, John
I'd say there are SOME fairly strong distinctions in as much that I have fairly regularly provided 'site temporaries' which is almost exclusively done with extention leads and distribution boards with plug inlet and socket outlets (distro's).
The initial 'hook up' is often a flexible cable cobbled into a spare (or possibly not spare) fuseway. It certainly wouldn't be the first time I've pulled the wiring from a outlet of some sort, back to the trunking and used choc bloc. As it happens I have exactly that situation for my next job: 63A 3ph to a local isolator, pulling it into the trunking and extending from there. Before anyone asks the isolator is the wrong side of the wall for the event.
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I thought it was clear that I was talking about regulations, not practices, and I can't recall any regs which make a distinction between 'temporary' and 'permanent' (even if they managed to define what those words meant!).
Actually I might have misled with my wording here. I consider twisted, soldered , sleeved permanent if done properly so should be as good as the conductor itself. Therefore if it is in trunking etc etc then I see no problem.
Choc blocks I consider temporary therefore not suitable.
Do we consider Wagos etc permanent or temporary?
Personally, I am not totally convinced about them being much more than temporary in reality, maybe in time I will catch up with everyone else in this respect.
If they are readily available for inspection and testing inside a backbox I`m happy enough, especially in lighting circuits.
For power circuits, that`s something that would take a leap of faith with me.
Systems that are classed as permanent should be inspected and tested every X years, inevitably parts of that system (sockets, switches etc) are temporary (OK then, perhaps semi-permanent) might be a better description therefore although are intended as permanent but considered more onerous so be readily available for inspection and testing and not buried in walls, under floors, in lofts to be forgotten about.
Parts of system intended as temporary should be inspected and tested more often.
How often, in practice, do we find the "Oh it`s only temporary!" bits and pieces intended a temporary but still in service 17 and a half years later?
Not unknown at all in my experience.
Choc blocks I consider temporary therefore not suitable.
Do we consider Wagos etc permanent or temporary?
Personally, I am not totally convinced about them being much more than temporary in reality, maybe in time I will catch up with everyone else in this respect.
If they are readily available for inspection and testing inside a backbox I`m happy enough, especially in lighting circuits.
For power circuits, that`s something that would take a leap of faith with me.
Systems that are classed as permanent should be inspected and tested every X years, inevitably parts of that system (sockets, switches etc) are temporary (OK then, perhaps semi-permanent) might be a better description therefore although are intended as permanent but considered more onerous so be readily available for inspection and testing and not buried in walls, under floors, in lofts to be forgotten about.
Parts of system intended as temporary should be inspected and tested more often.
How often, in practice, do we find the "Oh it`s only temporary!" bits and pieces intended a temporary but still in service 17 and a half years later?
Not unknown at all in my experience.
During my entire, long working life, I never, ever came across any joints, done by electricians, using solder, apart from large solder lugs, before the compression lugs came out. This, despite, such soldered joints being taught at college.
I repeat - I would be extremely wary of making any type of joint, in a normal run of trunking, filled with lots of other cables. I don't have an issue with the OP's short bit of trunking, if it's purpose was one of containing lots of joints.
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