surface-to-air missiles

[skyboy]

Just like police cars getting faster and faster , scoobies , evos etc etc.. They are just toys for the boys to play with - because they can..

and like police chases ending in death and destruction .

It's not police policy for car chases to end in death and destruction, nor the police who cause death and destruction. It's all in the hands of the feckless halfwits who steal cars in the first place, or fail to stop when requested to do so.

I disagree completely..

Ok so its not the actual policy but here are some facts to help you decide why I do not agree with the police playing at racing drivers (when they are not skilled enough).

If you have your house burgled - or your belonging stolen - or damage to your property the Police generally will not invest time and effort in looking to resolve or follow up your incident.

They will give you a crime number and point you in the direction of your insurers...

Why is a stolen car ANY DIFFERENT?

Your car is stolen... It is covered by insurance , you wont be in a loss scenario. So why do the police treat car theft differently from any other crime.

Isn't it actually time to admit that the only reason they chase stolen cars is because they enjoy it and they get their jollies off chasing crims as it gives them carte blanche to break all the rules of the road and drive like loons but with a rather weak justification.

Let me just tell you a real tale.

I had a friend , quite wealthy who was burgled. His wife's Audi Q7 was stolen as was his golf GTi.

The police chased the Gti and they chased it until the criminals overtokk a car in a bad place and had a head on collision with a totally innocent family travelling the other way.

The Q7 was found later that evening abandoned after the belongings stolen had been presumably been transfered to another car and driven off with.

How in the light of that real life scenario can you justify high speed car chases of stolen cars?


I can justify the police breaking the speed limit to get somewhere on time in a real emergency but is a stolen car an emergency.

Do they actually know whether the person driving the car at speed away from them is even capable of driving , are they drunk , a child , blind.. who knows..

Surely you cannot in any way justify chasing stolen cars.

 

[LastMagicBean]

don't actually know whether the person driving the car at speed away from them is even capable of driving ,

How does that work then?

 

[alumni]

I disagree completely..

Ok so its not the actual policy but here are some facts to help you decide why I do not agree with the police playing at racing drivers (when they are not skilled enough).

You don't have the monopoly in driving cars at speed. Granted, the average town plod isn't capable, but to insinuate the Traffic Division aren't capable? Where is your proof?

If you have your house burgled - or your belonging stolen - or damage to your property the Police generally will not invest time and effort in looking to resolve or follow up your incident.

They will give you a crime number and point you in the direction of your insurers...

Why is a stolen car ANY DIFFERENT?


Your car is stolen... It is covered by insurance , you wont be in a loss scenario. So why do the police treat car theft differently from any other crime.

Because it is a weapon, and a highly dangerous one at that!!

Isn't it actually time to admit that the only reason they chase stolen cars is because they enjoy it and they get their jollies off chasing crims as it gives them carte blanche to break all the rules of the road and drive like loons but with a rather weak justification.

Another of your weak arguments

Let me just tell you a real tale.

I had a friend , quite wealthy who was burgled. His wife's Audi Q7 was stolen as was his golf GTi.

The police chased the Gti and they chased it until the criminals overtokk a car in a bad place and had a head on collision with a totally innocent family travelling the other way.

The Q7 was found later that evening abandoned after the belongings stolen had been presumably been transfered to another car and driven off with.

How in the light of that real life scenario can you justify high speed car chases of stolen cars?


I can justify the police breaking the speed limit to get somewhere on time in a real emergency but is a stolen car an emergency.

Do they actually know whether the person driving the car at speed away from them is even capable of driving , are they drunk , a child , blind.. who knows..

Surely you cannot in any way justify chasing stolen cars.

I'd say you've answered the question you posed.

 

[Corgigrouch]

I would say that the whole point of having SAM batteries pointing skwards is that they will never be used... If the bad guys know that they will never achieve their goal then there is no point in swiping an airliner.. If they know that there is no defence, then the chances of achieving their aim is higher and therefore worth doing... If there was no defence and an incident occurred then those who are being so negative would be the first to demand to know why nothing was done.... Being prepared for anything is the best way to ensure that nothing happens..... And then folk will say that it was all a big waste of cash cos nothing happened.....Muppets!

 

[snico]

Ok so its not the actual policy but here are some facts to help you decide why I do not agree with the police playing at racing drivers (when they are not skilled enough).

Trust me, they are very skilled......racing drivers dont have pedestrians, junctions, crossroads etc etc to deal with.

If you have your house burgled - or your belonging stolen - or damage to your property the Police generally will not invest time and effort in looking to resolve or follow up your incident.

They will give you a crime number and point you in the direction of your insurers..

Do you know how many police officers are on duty at a given time, compared to the number of reports of crimes committed that are called in. They do they best they can given the circumstances.

Why is a stolen car ANY DIFFERENT?

Your car is stolen... It is covered by insurance , you wont be in a loss scenario. So why do the police treat car theft differently from any other crime.

There are usually more crimes connected to people who steal cars. Also, joyriders tend to drive with no care in the world, they are dangerous and have no idea about driving at high speeds....which is one of the reasons they steal cars in the first place.

Pursuit drivers will try to avoid a high speed pursuit every time, its not something they like being involved in, so to say they enjoy it is ignorant. Thats why if a pursuit is becoming dangerous, they will stop. also the reason they have helicopters and planes, once they are up the police will back right off.

Do you think there should be a 'no pursuit' policy put in place.....It would be like xmas day every day for criminals!

 

[Corgigrouch]

Quite a few cars these days have the provision of a GSM system built into the ECM, some will even book your car in for a service with a dealer automatically. The logical long term solution would be to be able to "call" the stolen car with information given by it's owner to allow the police to shut down the engine... I think that Mercedes did toy with this idea.. the system shut the engine down one cylinder at a time to allow the crooks to pull over. Personally speaking I would wait 'till the car had just overtaken a Travellers Transit and instruct the ECM to lock all the brakes... One stone, Two birds.

 

[Norcon]

The police pursuit vehicle should be redesigned to accomodate a manned turret with enough firepower to take the back end of stolen vehicle clean off.

 

[Corgigrouch]

The police pursuit vehicle should be redesigned to accomodate a manned turret with enough firepower to take the back end of stolen vehicle clean off.

Thats another good option...

 

[skyboy]

You don't have the monopoly in driving cars at speed. Granted, the average town plod isn't capable, but to insinuate the Traffic Division aren't capable? Where is your proof

Because it is a weapon, and a highly dangerous one at that!!

I'd say you've answered the question you posed.

Ok scenario one - on a motoring website there were several arguments where the police refused to accept that in order to drive pursuit they needed to go on track with professional race drivers and learn car control in extremis.
How can that be - they are still taught feeding the wheel through the hands..??
How are they going to cope when they come round that corner at speed and hit a wet patch or a motorist pulls out without seeing them and they have to take evasive action? Without knowing exactly how to handle cars at the limit even if you never intend to drive the car to that limit you will be caught out when circumstances you didn't expect put you on that limit. The other obvious problem of course is what if the criminal you chase happens to be a very good driver? You will go beyond your capabilities trying to keep up.
A recent traffic officer made the news recently because he totalled a golf rs32 driving beyond his capabilities and he was a supposed expert..
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Fletcher-wrecks-40k-supercar-test-drive.html


Scenario two - Exactly a car is a dangerous weapon so why push someone beyond their limit or as happened in the case of my friends stolen car into the path of an innocent family.

Scenario three - I fail to see the point you were trying to make.

 

[alumni]

Stick to racing your little clio's.

Selectively picking individual examples does NOT mean all Police can't drive.

And i take it in your world Racing drivers don't crash?

Mind you, bringing the thread back on topic in a roundabout sort of way.
I do recall a certain Herr Schumacher was want to using his car as a missile (or more precisely, a hittile) if it meant taking out his competitors for the championship.

 

[skyboy]

Trust me, they are very skilled......racing drivers dont have pedestrians, junctions, crossroads etc etc to deal with.


There are usually more crimes connected to people who steal cars. Also, joyriders tend to drive with no care in the world, they are dangerous and have no idea about driving at high speeds....which is one of the reasons they steal cars in the first place.

Pursuit drivers will try to avoid a high speed pursuit every time, its not something they like being involved in, so to say they enjoy it is ignorant. Thats why if a pursuit is becoming dangerous, they will stop. also the reason they have helicopters and planes, once they are up the police will back right off.

Do you think there should be a 'no pursuit' policy put in place.....It would be like xmas day every day for criminals!

I think there needs to be a rationalisation of thought.
You are right racing drivers don't have all those obstacles to deal with and it makes me wince everytime I see a tv police pursuit where officers go through 30mph zones , parked cars , wrong side of traffic islands etc etc at double the speed limit.

It is ONLY by luck if they don't kill someone.
You made a point there about joyriders being dangerous and having no idea about driving at high speed..exactly so why push them faster till they crash and kill either themselves or someone else..?

In my opinion police should be issued with 2.0 litre turbodiesels with around 150bhp as a maximum.

Anything they cannot keep up with in a well driven one of them is going too fast - period.

How would it be like xmas day if there was a no pursuit policy?
Many crimes are solved after the event or with cctv or forensic evidence. How many actual crimes are solved when the police catch a fail to stop?

 

[AssociatedAlarms]

So is Skyboy saying a stolen car in an armed robbery should not be perused?
I am all in favour of ANY crime being investigated and all methods at hand to be used. As for racing drivers they all go in one direction. Have people wave flags if there is a danger or they are going too slow. I doubt the person has even been on a IAM course or had Police training for cars or motorcycles. Which you pay for if a private citizen, not too expensive either.
They are taught both methods now, feeding and cross handed. Drive on "wet" surfaces covered in oil.

Inexperienced drivers are not supposed to be used on "Blues and Twos" but it happens. And there have been deaths because of this. No one is perfect, but the ratio of Police caused deaths is minuscule compared to stolen vehicles. As for the last example, the car was not supposed to have been moved by the driver concerned and he was "showing off" which was proven and disciplined for.

 

[pred]

I disagree completely..

Ok so its not the actual policy but here are some facts to help you decide why I do not agree with the police playing at racing drivers (when they are not skilled enough).

You don't have the monopoly in driving cars at speed. Granted, the average town plod isn't capable, but to insinuate the Traffic Division aren't capable? Where is your proof?

If you have your house burgled - or your belonging stolen - or damage to your property the Police generally will not invest time and effort in looking to resolve or follow up your incident.

They will give you a crime number and point you in the direction of your insurers...

Why is a stolen car ANY DIFFERENT?


Your car is stolen... It is covered by insurance , you wont be in a loss scenario. So why do the police treat car theft differently from any other crime.

Because it is a weapon, and a highly dangerous one at that!!

Isn't it actually time to admit that the only reason they chase stolen cars is because they enjoy it and they get their jollies off chasing crims as it gives them carte blanche to break all the rules of the road and drive like loons but with a rather weak justification.

Another of your weak arguments

Let me just tell you a real tale.

I had a friend , quite wealthy who was burgled. His wife's Audi Q7 was stolen as was his golf GTi.

The police chased the Gti and they chased it until the criminals overtokk a car in a bad place and had a head on collision with a totally innocent family travelling the other way.

The Q7 was found later that evening abandoned after the belongings stolen had been presumably been transfered to another car and driven off with.

How in the light of that real life scenario can you justify high speed car chases of stolen cars?


I can justify the police breaking the speed limit to get somewhere on time in a real emergency but is a stolen car an emergency.

Do they actually know whether the person driving the car at speed away from them is even capable of driving , are they drunk , a child , blind.. who knows..

Surely you cannot in any way justify chasing stolen cars.

I'd say you've answered the question you posed.

The proof as you put it is here in Bristol where police are banned from chaseing motorbikes, i think this was largely due to an incident that took place here in the mid 80s.

 

[skyboy]

Stick to racing your little clio's.

Selectively picking individual examples does NOT mean all Police can't drive.

And i take it in your world Racing drivers don't crash?

Mind you, bringing the thread back on topic in a roundabout sort of way.
I do recall a certain Herr Schumacher was want to using his car as a missile (or more precisely, a hittile) if it meant taking out his competitors for the championship.

I don't race clios???
Oh yes racing drivers do crash of course because the whole point of racing is going to your absolute limit..
However a racing driver driving at 9/10ths will be in a safety zone and still faster than anyone not professionally trained.

 

[AssociatedAlarms]

The proof as you put it is here in Bristol where police are banned from chaseing motorbikes, i think this was largely due to an incident that took place here in the mid 80s.

Was that the helmet less one? Or the one who crossed the Armco?
Soon you can drown.........................sorry you can now and be watched without assistance. Firefighters are not allowed to fit smoke alarms now if you have smoked a cigarette in your house before they arrive. What would happen if there was a fire???????????