Don't get cheap and nasty laquered brass then.
Sponsored Links
T
thatbloke
cant find any that arnt , brass tarnishes and nobody it would seem wants that , except me.
Don't fit brass then.
Let's cut to the chase.
"the environment these switches are to be used in"?
The environment is 2010.
Get over that, or go back to candles and gas lamps.
Let's cut to the chase.
"the environment these switches are to be used in"?
The environment is 2010.
Get over that, or go back to candles and gas lamps.
T
thatbloke
the 'environment' is a documented 500+ year old cottage , it hasn't been modernised since the early 1800's when an extension was put onto the rear except for a rewire in nineteen ninety something and some basic plumbing in the 50's, the old part of the house has remained untouched for 500 years , really , you have to see it to fully appreciate why modern fittings wouldn't go down too well in it. the white plastic boxes that have been used in it , although an honest addition look terrible. To put cheap lacquered brass effect fittings would simply be insulting towards it (this is just my personal taste though).
i realise that late victorian/edwardian fittings may not be an honest addition in the sense that they have been put there in 2010 but they really dont look half as bad as the white fittings that are here at the moment. the elv lighting is to unobtrusively replace the 4' fluorescent tubes that currently light the house.
if you can show me an unobtrusive modern method of switching lights that doesn't involve hanging surface mount white plastic boxes i would be very interested in hearing about it.
my insurance company would have a fit if they thought i was using gas lamps or candles , thatched roofs and naked flames dont really mix all that well.
i realise that late victorian/edwardian fittings may not be an honest addition in the sense that they have been put there in 2010 but they really dont look half as bad as the white fittings that are here at the moment. the elv lighting is to unobtrusively replace the 4' fluorescent tubes that currently light the house.
if you can show me an unobtrusive modern method of switching lights that doesn't involve hanging surface mount white plastic boxes i would be very interested in hearing about it.
my insurance company would have a fit if they thought i was using gas lamps or candles , thatched roofs and naked flames dont really mix all that well.
Sponsored Links
- Joined
- 28 Jan 2010
- Messages
- 641
- Reaction score
- 75
- Country
Please don't listen to Banal's derisive comments about your splendid sounding cottage. (To give you an idea of his taste in architecture, he is immensely proud of his hideous block-paved drive)
A relay system needn't be overly complicated, especially if the cottage is small, on one level and you have access to the roof space. A 12v SELV transformer and a few relays/contactors in your loft would allow you to safely use these period switches.
Why are you so keen on ELV lighting? If it was just as a way of utilising these switches, then ditch it.
A relay system needn't be overly complicated, especially if the cottage is small, on one level and you have access to the roof space. A 12v SELV transformer and a few relays/contactors in your loft would allow you to safely use these period switches.
Why are you so keen on ELV lighting? If it was just as a way of utilising these switches, then ditch it.
T
thatbloke
i dont mind bas's comments , his advice is always welcome .i wish to use elv lighting mostly to utilise the switches but also to keep it all discrete , i have beamed ceilings with daub infill's and discrete lighting has always reared its ugly head as a problem for me. obviously i am not experienced with electrics so i am really fishing for options , money will dictate though as i dont want to tackle any of this my self. i have no loft space as such , my upstairs ceilings are vaulted with exposed rafters and daub infill's.
all the cables are surface mount so i am trying to keep it all as simple and as discrete as possible.
edit ,would switching relays enable me to use a smaller wire?
all the cables are surface mount so i am trying to keep it all as simple and as discrete as possible.
edit ,would switching relays enable me to use a smaller wire?
Then any form of electrical installation is an anachronism, isn't it.
There are no light switches in keeping with the property because they didn't have any back then.
You are trying to achieve the impossible. Would you want early 1800s plumbing? An early 1800s kitchen? No TV, no stereo, no phone? Is that an early 1800s computer you are using?
T
thatbloke
your just being silly now , 'in keeping' does not mean 'from the same era in time' , it means 'in harmony' , so , as i am the only one sitting here observing the actual place where the light switches will be 'in keeping' with i guess that makes me the only person among the two of us who can rightly say what would be 'in keeping' and what wouldn't , all you can really do is make educated guesses.
i do see what you are trying to say though but because i cannot have switches that were made in the early 1500's i have to choose some that will be both functional and 'in keeping' with the property.
for instance , some modern 'contemporary' switches would look out of place in an old house like this because everything around them is very dated. so what do i do? not use any switches at all for fear of them not being true to the house? or do i choose switches that i like? or do i choose modern, what i consider to be bland white switches such as the ones here at the moment because they are the most common fitted switches used today? whatever i choose except the first option of not using any switches and sitting in the dark will not truly be 'in keeping' , so , it doesn't really matter what type of switch i choose.
i do see what you are trying to say though but because i cannot have switches that were made in the early 1500's i have to choose some that will be both functional and 'in keeping' with the property.
for instance , some modern 'contemporary' switches would look out of place in an old house like this because everything around them is very dated. so what do i do? not use any switches at all for fear of them not being true to the house? or do i choose switches that i like? or do i choose modern, what i consider to be bland white switches such as the ones here at the moment because they are the most common fitted switches used today? whatever i choose except the first option of not using any switches and sitting in the dark will not truly be 'in keeping' , so , it doesn't really matter what type of switch i choose.
If you happen to have an electrical test laboratory in the shed, yes.
The easiest way I think would be to use the old switch to control something like an easyswitch transmitter and have the receiver next to the ceiling rose / transformer.
You can strip the lacquer off brass, but modern brass is usually too yellowy a colour anyway.
the 'environment' is a documented 500+ year old cottage , .... if you can show me an unobtrusive modern method of switching lights that doesn't involve hanging surface mount white plastic boxes i would be very interested in hearing about it.
my insurance company would have a fit if they thought i was using gas lamps or candles , thatched roofs and naked flames dont really mix all that well.
Lovely. You can conceal modern ceiling pull switches at ceiling level (they will paint dark colour if you want) and have tassels.
But if you are rewiring from scratch (pyro cable? - safe for thatch and can look good in a period environment) then don't completely rule out the relay cabinet option. It's quite common on the continent for implementing two/multiway switching, and routine in industry to use relay control. You could also use X10 transmitters at the switches and have a cabinet for the controllers.
Indeed, and just like your shower, bath, cooker, fridge, flushing toilet, TV, stereo, furnishings, exterior doors and windows etc etc you have to choose what you like. For the last 500 years people have been changing that property to make it fit for the way they want to use it. If we never replaced anything that was not "in keeping" we would still be living in caves. When it was built it would not even have had glass in the windows - at some point an owner changed that to something more modern.
If nobody makes what you consider ideal then they don't make it, and there's nothing you can do about it unless you have deep pockets.
Well, you have been given a few ideas of ways you could use those jelly mould ones, but they do involve more complexity.
The latter, of course, tempered by the practical reality of what you can get that you can afford and which conform to adequate safety standards.
There are all sorts of alternatives to white plastic, and they aren't all chrome or stainless steel. Maybe matt black or gunmetal or gloss white flat plate ones would look OK? I don't know - as you say, only you can decide. But if the switches you want to use had been perfectly OK to use, what would you have done about sockets? What would you have done about TV and phone outlets? What would you have done about the CH thermostat/programmer?
You could have extremely unobtrusive light switches if you want, or even none at all, but that won't help with any of the other accessory types you need.
Very unobtrusive: recess boxes into the wall and use those proximity switches primarily aimed at kitchens and bathrooms where they are installed behind tiles. Fit screwless flat blanking plates to the boxes painted the same as the walls. DISCLAIMER - you would have to check with the makers that they would actually work behind a metal plate.
No switches: wireless remote control.
- Joined
- 28 Jan 2010
- Messages
- 641
- Reaction score
- 75
- Country
Right then marra, just to clear some things up:
1) You can't switch mains voltage with those switches - they ain't safe.
2) Forget ELV lighting - the cables have to be MUCH BIGGER than mains lighting, not something I'd guess you want. Also those switches might struggle with the higher currents involved. (two 100w lamps would draw over 16amps at 12v )
3) If you want to use the switches, you must only use them to switch ELV, and use this ELV to energise relays to switch the mains to your lights. The current required to energise a relay is very small, so you could use damn small cables indeed to your switches.
The only thing is that your relay box and ELV supply would have to be mounted somewhere, and all cables to each light and each switch would have to connect to it. Would that be possible given your aesthetic / practicality requirements?
1) You can't switch mains voltage with those switches - they ain't safe.
2) Forget ELV lighting - the cables have to be MUCH BIGGER than mains lighting, not something I'd guess you want. Also those switches might struggle with the higher currents involved. (two 100w lamps would draw over 16amps at 12v
)3) If you want to use the switches, you must only use them to switch ELV, and use this ELV to energise relays to switch the mains to your lights. The current required to energise a relay is very small, so you could use damn small cables indeed to your switches.
The only thing is that your relay box and ELV supply would have to be mounted somewhere, and all cables to each light and each switch would have to connect to it. Would that be possible given your aesthetic / practicality requirements?
Another option would be to keep the existing switches for appearance only - don't connect them to any power.
You then use wireless remotes to control the lighting, such as this system:
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Wiring_Accessories_Menu_Index/GET_Smart/index.html
Easier to install than relays etc. - however still a significant cost.
You then use wireless remotes to control the lighting, such as this system:
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Wiring_Accessories_Menu_Index/GET_Smart/index.html
Easier to install than relays etc. - however still a significant cost.
DIYnot Local
Staff member
If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.
Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.
Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local
Sponsored Links
