T&G Shed door

[Jupiter01]

My old shed had the 18mm T&G Floorboards fitted vertically. On the back it had 3 horizontal braces using 63mm battens and 2 diagonals. I didn’t have any issues with expansion/contraction. Was this a fluke or expected behaviour?

I ask, as I need to create a new shed door and wanted to check if this is worth following.

 

[Diver Fred]

My old shed had the 18mm T&G Floorboards fitted vertically. On the back it had 3 horizontal braces using 63mm battens and 2 diagonals. I didn’t have any issues with expansion/contraction. Was this a fluke or expected behaviour?

I ask, as I need to create a new shed door and wanted to check if this is worth following.

Expected behaviour. Your existing door is known as 'Ledge & Brace' - the 'ledge' is the horizontal, the 'brace' is the diagonal. The brace's should be fitted so the low end of the brace is at the hinge side of the door to prevent sag.

My only comment is the existing 'battens' do seem to be narrower than usual.

 

[Jupiter01]

Expected behaviour. Your existing door is known as 'Ledge & Brace' - the 'ledge' is the horizontal, the 'brace' is the diagonal. The brace's should be fitted so the low end of the brace is at the hinge side of the door to prevent sag.

My only comment is the existing 'battens' do seem to be narrower than usual.

What size do you recommend for the ledge and braces?
Also, should I glue together the T&G boards?
Thanks for your help.

 

[Diver Fred]

What size do you recommend for the ledge and braces?
Also, should I glue together the T&G boards?
Thanks for your help.

Well I'm 'old school' so would normally use 5x1&1/4 but 4x1 (or 4x1&1/4) is equally useable. (Finished sizes on those timbers are 115x28 or 94x28.)
Don't glue the boards together.

 

[Jupiter01]

Well I'm 'old school' so would normally use 5x1&1/4 but 4x1 (or 4x1&1/4) is equally useable. (Finished sizes on those timbers are 115x28 or 94x28.)
Don't glue the boards together.

Thanks again.
Couple more if I may please

- do I just screw from behind or is there any value in putting through some bolts to hold the T&G and braces?

- how much clearance should I have between door and frame for expansion/contraction? Is this around all 4 sides of the door?

 

[Jupiter01]

I would be most grateful for any advice on the above please.
Thanks again.

 

[big-all]

ideally on a shed you would have 12-19mm stops all round [19x38mm tile baton good for this and between doors ] and plan 5-7mm gap all round
iff you have a pair off doors then plan on 6+[6-9]+6 gaps with the baton between the doors aim for 15-20mm overlap
the cross rails will never expand more than perhaps 2mm in length but 10% is easily possible across boards this will mostly be contained centrally and only effect the edge boards
stop the cross rails 3-6mm short each end off the face planking to allow easier trimming when expansion fills the gap

 

[Jupiter01]

ideally on a shed you would have 12-19mm stops all round [19x38mm tile baton good for this and between doors ] and plan 5-7mm gap all round
iff you have a pair off doors then plan on 6+[6-9]+6 gaps with the baton between the doors aim for 15-20mm overlap
the cross rails will never expand more than perhaps 2mm in length but 10% is easily possible across boards this will mostly be contained centrally and only effect the edge boards
stop the cross rails 3-6mm short each end off the face planking to allow easier trimming when expansion fills the gap

Thanks for this.
Is the 5-7mm gap required on the hinge end too?

Also, I am planning to construct the double doors with this type of overlap. I can leave a 5-7mm gap in this overlap arrangement if that makes sense?


I will use this arrangement of bracing and as you can see, the horizontal braces are not right on the edge.



With the braces on the back, I was planning to glue and screw them. Is there any need to use bolts across these?

 

[big-all]

not advisable to glue external timber, that's why you build in expansion and contraction
no need for a frame thats more an internal fully sealed and painted non breathing situation with your cladding "breathing" with the weather they will fight each other to some extent
heavy duty "T" hinges allow for large expansion gaps
you only need bolts as a security measure

 

[Jupiter01]

Thanks for all the suggestions.
I am pulling all of this together and designing these doors, before I order the material. Can I please run this past you for comment.

As a reminder, I have two openings for double doors in each. The openings are 180cm tall and 160cm wide.



The lip is designed for the second door to overlap. A bit like you can see in this design:


I won’t frame like this. My proposed designed is sketched out above


Some other questions/comments:
- I will use a combination of bolts and screws on hinges for security, unless you recommend the use of “security screws”?
- am I okay to squeeze the T&G floor boards together by hand, as I don’t have a wide clamp?
- some chap on YouTube was glueing and screwing the braces like this. Is this recommended?



Please let me know if you have any other comments or suggestions. Appreciate your help with this.

 

[big-all]

in my eyes gluing what looks like 7.5mm t&g onto a frame is a disaster waiting to happen
really not sure what you are trying to achieve
you would 100%NOT clamp together iff its ultra dry coverage will be 87.5-88mm so space appart to 90mm coverage for expansion
iff you are filly painting with gloss or other 100% breathable but waterproof it may work for a while but i wouldnt recomend it------other might though so wait for further comment as only my opinion

 

[Jupiter01]

in my eyes gluing what looks like 7.5mm t&g onto a frame is a disaster waiting to happen

In my case, I will be using 18mm x 119mm T&G boards. I assume gluing is not recommended but would it be okay to insert two screws into each board, as show in that image?

you would 100%NOT clamp together iff its ultra dry coverage will be 87.5-88mm so space appart to 90mm coverage for expansion

I don’t follow this part.
I won’t clamp together but do I fully insert the tongue into the grooves, albeit by hand pressure?

Otherwise, does my proposed design look ok?

Thanks again.

 

[big-all]

ok ex 5" is 110/11 coverage as they measure the tounge starts at 119
lay 2 planks hand tight together measure shoulder to shoulder [the coverage]iff its less than 113mm open to 113 if its more than 113mm close together as much as possible this is to give interplank expansion
you only need one fixing per plank this should be 1/3 width near the tongue or indeed blind nailed in the tongue at 45% degree angle

also 18mm is that the actual size or pre worked [before machining ]size as its may be 12mm thick as worked stock

 

[Jupiter01]

lay 2 planks hand tight together measure shoulder to shoulder [the coverage]iff its less than 113mm open to 113 if its more than 113mm close together as much as possible this is to give interplank expansion

I would expect the blue arrow I have drawn to measure 119mm. This excludes the tongue, which is the same as what you have suggested.
If I put 2 boards together, I am expecting the shoulder-to-shoulder measurement to be (119 x 2) 238mm but you refer to 113. Can you clarify this please?

 

[big-all]

they measure the tongue which in use is inside the groove by around 9mm