They’re dealing out swift justice to the rioters

[denso13]

A few have pleaded not guilty.

There will be a trial for those, guilty pleas go straight to sentencing. Usually.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

At the moment we lock people up for too long on average.
Its a waste of money that should be spent on rehabilitation to prevent them just coming back in a few months.

I know that's the general consensus and I know my stance is an increasing minority position, however I reckon we don't lock folk up for long enough in many cases.

I do agree however that for genuine low level crime, prison isn't always the answer.

 

[IT Minion]

My recollection is based on a particular court house. Magistrates court on the ground floor and crown on the 2nd. Having pleaded guilty the person was immediately whisked up to the crown court. Pretty sure this one also mentioned the actual proceedings in the court.

Magistrate straight to crown is the fast tracking.

A few have pleaded not guilty. The crown court hearing was set a ~couple of weeks hence. I've not heard any news on the end result.

I believe you're confused. For serious crimes you check in with the Magistrates then move onto the crown courts where the trial/plea happens.

For more minor crimes the magistrates handle you all themselves. Sentencing normally happens a while after the trial/plea but when fast tracked they can be done on the same day.

 

[ajohn]

I believe you're confused.

I can only repeat what I heard. Probably mentioned if this particular court house is unusual or more to explain the fast tracking aspect. Both types in the same building. Mind you I think B'ham is similar so others are iikely to be.

 

[ajohn]

I know that's the general consensus and I know my stance is an increasing minority position, however I reckon we don't lock folk up for long enough in many cases.

A common call but it has to be related to prison places. I think the partial clear out starts this week due to the total number of places currently left. Some mention on the news but I didn't take a lot of notice. Some mention of the types that may be released a while ago was minor bail infringements - pass as far as I am concerned as details may come out.

Labour have a bigger interest in reoffending than usual. The statistics are pretty terrible. Sort of why and what to do about it approach. Rory the Tory mentioned numbers in relating to being taken into care at some point in their life.

 

[IT Minion]

I can only repeat what I heard. Probably mentioned if this particular court house is unusual or more to explain the fast tracking aspect. Both types in the same building. Mind you I think B'ham is similar so others are iikely to be.

No, that's selling yourself short. You could go out and learn.

The Magistrates’ Court Process - Purcell Parker - Criminal Law Solicitors

purcellparker.co.uk

Having crown courts and magistrates in the same building is slightly unusual but not unique and has no effect on the process that's followed.

 

[Notch7]

I know that's the general consensus and I know my stance is an increasing minority position, however I reckon we don't lock folk up for long enough in many cases.

I do agree however that for genuine low level crime, prison isn't always the answer.

The problem is that increasing prison sentence length to act as a deterrent doesn’t actually reduce crime

I understand the argument for retribution, but ultimately society just needs less crime at an affordable cost and that’s best achieved by rehabilitation rather than retribution

America increased its prison population from something like 300,000 to 1.75m and crime didn’t go down


I personally think our sentencing is bonkers, crimes of violence resulting in life changing injuries can result in a lesser sentence than non violent aspects of crime like theft

 

[Trazor]

I personally think our sentencing is bonkers, crimes of violence resulting in life changing injuries can result in a lesser sentence than non violent aspects of crime like theft

We need to look at the U.A.E., stuff going soft on crime.

 

[Mrs Ten Names]

The problem is that increasing prison sentence length to act as a deterrent doesn’t actually reduce crime

I understand the argument for retribution, but ultimately society just needs less crime at an affordable cost and that’s best achieved by rehabilitation rather than retribution

America increased its prison population from something like 300,000 to 1.75m and crime didn’t go down


I personally think our sentencing is bonkers, crimes of violence resulting in life changing injuries can result in a lesser sentence than non violent aspects of crime like theft

I'll say again, the severity of the punishment is not the deterrent, the probability of being caught is the real deterrent.
Governments make the mistake of housing more prisoners for longer, instead of investing in the police to increase the detection rate.

 

[motorbiking]

No. There is a trial just as if some one who pleaded not guilty. A judge decides on the sentence based on evidence as the charge will have been in the first place.

Nonsense.

There is no trial when the defendant plea is guilty. That’s the whole point.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

The problem is that increasing prison sentence length to act as a deterrent doesn’t actually reduce crime

I understand the argument for retribution, but ultimately society just needs less crime at an affordable cost and that’s best achieved by rehabilitation rather than retribution

America increased its prison population from something like 300,000 to 1.75m and crime didn’t go down


I personally think our sentencing is bonkers, crimes of violence resulting in life changing injuries can result in a lesser sentence than non violent aspects of crime like theft

I get that, I also get that the stats back this up.

However, there surely has to be a balance. I also suspect, no actually I know, if we go down the route of reducing sentences in favour of a more rehabilitation route, there will be those that will exploit that to the full, safe in the knowledge the maximum sentence for their crime of choice is less.

I'm probably old school and like I say, I'm fully aware it's a less favoured position. However to me, if someone commits a serious crime then of course rehabilitation should be part of the package. However it should be coupled with a prison sentence that's reflective of the crime/s committed.

 

[ajohn]

There is no trial when the defendant plea is guilty. That’s the whole point.

Perhaps the confusion comes from comments like this one
“In my judgment, I am entirely justified in moving outside the ordinary range of sentence.

Painter gets longest summer riots sentence so far as he is jailed for nine years

Thomas Birley, 27, was jailed for nine years at Sheffield Crown Court for his role in violence outside the Holiday Inn Express in Rotherham.

www.standard.co.uk

The report I mentioned stated that evidence was presented even though the plea was guilty. That was the only point I was making.

 

[foxhole]

And quite right too but why aren’t they processing those that attacked the police and broke a woman PC's nose at the airport the other week just as quickly? Oh, just realised, they weren’t white, were they? Two-tier policing at its very best!

They were not rioters . Chalk and cheese not black and white.

 

[motorbiking]

Perhaps the confusion comes from comments like this one
“In my judgment, I am entirely justified in moving outside the ordinary range of sentence.

Painter gets longest summer riots sentence so far as he is jailed for nine years

Thomas Birley, 27, was jailed for nine years at Sheffield Crown Court for his role in violence outside the Holiday Inn Express in Rotherham.

www.standard.co.uk

The report I mentioned stated that evidence was presented even though the plea was guilty. That was the only point I was making.

This is why it’s vital to get legal advice.

Plod frequently try to simplify an offence in order to gain a confession. Assault, criminal damage etc. these are not straightforward offences and often a person who has attacked someone or something has a lawful excuse.

 

[IT Minion]

They were not rioters . Chalk and cheese not black and white.

A file has been sent to the CPS apparently, they're thinking what charges to bring.