Trade deals progress

[jasonzyx]

Tell me then...

How do you work out if someone is of UK/Irish citizenship when they turn up at a border between the EU and a 'third country', which N.I. (as part of the UK) will become?

Because in order to prove a right for free movement, it is also necessary to prevent those not eligible.
Thus checks will have to take place which is a hard border - and which is against the Good Friday agreement!

I fully agree the only way to 'police' the border between NI and Ireland is to have customs checks.
But that is not excluded in the GFA per se. Hard borders would discourage the harmony (and the re-building of that ) between communities, but hard borders are not explicitly excluded. So while not explicitly excluded, it is against the spirit of the GFA.
The real nonsense part of talk about a hard border on the island would be the vast reduction of recognised crossing points, the enormous cost of infrastructure not only of those customs checks, but also in prevention of bypassing/avoiding such customs checks (many roads would need to be closed and boundaries would need to be redrawn to avoid splitting homes, farms, buildings, towns, streets, etc.). Also those customs checkpoints could become the target of 'protests', requiring far more than simple customs checks.
Hard borders would also create chaos for regular border travellers. Imagine having to cross the same border several times back and forth on your way to school/work/shopping/to visit friends/relatives/to socialise/hospital/doctors/dentist appointments etc.

So while the GFA does not explicitly exclude border checks, the possibility of border checks seriously endangers one of the aims of the GFA (the rebuilding of trust and relationships between the people of NI and Ireland)
Any Brexit also endangers the rebuilding of trust between the people of NI (Republicans and Unionists). Republicans being anti-Brexit, and Unionists being pro-Brexit, not forgetting that in NI there was a majority to Remain in EU. And NI may be taken out of the EU against the wishes of the majority.
Any discord between GB (UK) and Ireland, due to Brexit, also endangers one of the other aims of the GFA, that of rebuilding trust between GB and Ireland.

That is why the EU suggested that NI remain in a customs union in the backstop, so as not to endanger the GFA. It was TM (and DUP) who insisted that this should extend to the whole of the UK, which was then thrown out by Parliament.

One also has to remember that the full title of the Tories is the Conservative and Unionist Party, which TM reminded us of recently, and it is recognised that TM is primarily a party animal (not in the sense of 'Let's party!'). It is also evident from her attempts to hold the party together at all cost that she is a party animal irrespective of the consequences.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

You are the one posting the poll results on here multiple times and in bold.

Yes.

Reporting them, not creating them.

Reporting the analysis of the pollsters, not analysing the response data.

Reporting the claims, not making them.

And in bold because of the presence here of people who are so intellectually challenged that they struggled to read it in a normal font - I thought that a Big Print version might help them.

You are the one posting up the IRA images.

To highlight the insanity of those who consider that those things happening again would be an acceptable price to pay for Brexit.

You are the ****.

I'm not the one trying to pretend that because I warn about the possible implications of a blasé attitude to a collapse of the peace process I'm an IRA propagandist.

What next, Ian - if Liverpool win the Premier League, are you going to start criticising any reporter who reports that for being a Liverpool supporter?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Liar.

Interesting.

So it's OK for G-Wiz to make false accusations about links I post - you sit there and allow him to get away with it without so much of a murmur of dissent. Put the boot on the other foot and you leap in.

There's something wrong with your rationality.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Cannot take it BAS

Cannot take what?

You being such a shameful waste of air that you tell lies about me?

Funny how I'm not going to sit idly by and let you do that, isn't it.

you not posted any IRA propaganda for a while????

You shameful, lying, waste of air.

 

[durhamplumber]

Cannot take what?

You being such a shameful waste of air that you tell lies about me?

Funny how I'm not going to sit idly by and let you do that, isn't it.



You shameful, lying, waste of air.

You keep showing pictures of Aftermath of IRA bombings,and suggest we arrange brexit so as not to upset the IRA..Which bit of that is a lie?

 

[durhamplumber]

Tell me then...

How do you work out if someone is of UK/Irish citizenship when they turn up at a border between the EU and a 'third country', which N.I. (as part of the UK) will become?

Because in order to prove a right for free movement, it is also necessary to prevent those not eligible.
Thus checks will have to take place which is a hard border - and which is against the Good Friday agreement!

It will sort lal,, dont panic

 

[ban-all-sheds]

You keep showing pictures of Aftermath of IRA bombings,and suggest we arrange brexit so as not to upset the IRA..Which bit of that is a lie?

The bit in blue.

 

[JP_]

"Britain intends shortly to sign trade deals with Switzerland, Chile, the Palestinian Authority and the Faroe Islands."

Well, at least we'll be able to get cheap Faroe Roshies next Christmas

 

[ellal]

but hard borders are not explicitly excluded.

Well I guess international treaties exist only to be torn up

 

[EddieM]

Well, at least we'll be able to get cheap Faroe Roshies next Christmas

From Ferrero Rocher, Italian Chocolatier? (I presume you meant, with that gawd awful mash up) ?

 

[jasonzyx]

Well I guess international treaties exist only to be torn up

If an agreement does not specifically exclude something, and that something happens, or is allowed to happen, the agreement is not cancelled, torn up or otherwise ignored. It is worked around. But that does not mean that the 'something' does not contravene the spirit of that agreement. It might be considered hugely irresponsible (or poorly informed) to allow the spirit of an agreement to be contravened, depending on the consequences of such contravention.

Any such contravention of the spirit of an agreement can mean several things: future agreements become more legislative prescriptive, future agreements take longer to negotiate in order to avoid such contraventions, future agreements become less reliable.

 

[durhamplumber]

If an agreement does not specifically exclude something, and that something happens, or is allowed to happen, the agreement is not cancelled, torn up or otherwise ignored. It is worked around. But that does not mean that the 'something' does not contravene the spirit of that agreement. It might be considered hugely irresponsible (or poorly informed) to allow the spirit of an agreement to be contravened, depending on the consequences of such contravention.

Any such contravention of the spirit of an agreement can mean several things: future agreements become more legislative prescriptive, future agreements take longer to negotiate in order to avoid such contraventions, future agreements become less reliable.

Good grief,, what a load of waffle about nothing.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

DP - feel free at any time to leave the forum and find one more suited to the level of your intellect.

 

[durhamplumber]

DP - feel free at any time to leave the forum and find one more suited to the level of your intellect.

Rofl ..ok boss.

 

[durhamplumber]

I fully agree the only way to 'police' the border between NI and Ireland is to have customs checks.
But that is not excluded in the GFA per se. Hard borders would discourage the harmony (and the re-building of that ) between communities, but hard borders are not explicitly excluded. So while not explicitly excluded, it is against the spirit of the GFA.
The real nonsense part of talk about a hard border on the island would be the vast reduction of recognised crossing points, the enormous cost of infrastructure not only of those customs checks, but also in prevention of bypassing/avoiding such customs checks (many roads would need to be closed and boundaries would need to be redrawn to avoid splitting homes, farms, buildings, towns, streets, etc.). Also those customs checkpoints could become the target of 'protests', requiring far more than simple customs checks.
Hard borders would also create chaos for regular border travellers. Imagine having to cross the same border several times back and forth on your way to school/work/shopping/to visit friends/relatives/to socialise/hospital/doctors/dentist appointments etc.

So while the GFA does not explicitly exclude border checks, the possibility of border checks seriously endangers one of the aims of the GFA (the rebuilding of trust and relationships between the people of NI and Ireland)
Any Brexit also endangers the rebuilding of trust between the people of NI (Republicans and Unionists). Republicans being anti-Brexit, and Unionists being pro-Brexit, not forgetting that in NI there was a majority to Remain in EU. And NI may be taken out of the EU against the wishes of the majority.
Any discord between GB (UK) and Ireland, due to Brexit, also endangers one of the other aims of the GFA, that of rebuilding trust between GB and Ireland.

That is why the EU suggested that NI remain in a customs union in the backstop, so as not to endanger the GFA. It was TM (and DUP) who insisted that this should extend to the whole of the UK, which was then thrown out by Parliament.

One also has to remember that the full title of the Tories is the Conservative and Unionist Party, which TM reminded us of recently, and it is recognised that TM is primarily a party animal (not in the sense of 'Let's party!'). It is also evident from her attempts to hold the party together at all cost that she is a party animal irrespective of the consequences.

Technology solution...soon!!