TV Licence

[Paul_C]

Without thinking, I replied.."Er on the T...."

Next day, a detector van was round to issue me with a fine.

TVL can't issue fines. They can only prosecute, then if found guilty the court can issue a fine. But your statement by itself could not be taken as an admission of guilt; you could have seen the ad on somebody else's TV at a completely different address, even on a demo TV in a store.

But I saw a glorious ex B&O TV in the shop, that needed me...so bought it, and thought nothing about giving my address to be delivered to..

There's the trigger. Dealers are required to inform TVL of the name and address of purchasers of TV receiving equipment. So if there's no license at the given address when that notification arrives, it starts the whole sequence of automated letters churning out again. Of course, the purchase itself cannot be taken as any sort of indication of guilt either, since you could be buying the equipment as a gift for somebody else, or to use yourself for purposes other than receiving broadcast TV.

 

[Shutpa]

I paid my licence in June and a couple of weeks back got a £66 refund because I'm 75 soon. Age has its rewards

 

[ellal]

But if you do go down that path, be ready for the barrage of intimidating letters you'll receive on a regular basis from TVL, full of threats, accusations, and never-ending warnings about the maximum possible fine. There's barely a month goes by that I don't receive a "Threat-O-Gram" from TVL.

Then send them this...

To whom it may concern,

I do not require a television licence, as I do not receive or record live television broadcasts. Despite this, I have received multiple letters from your organisation implying that I am committing a criminal offence.

Your employees, and agents acting on your behalf, may not call at my address.

This letter provides you with prior written warning that such a visit will constitute trespass and harassment, and that I am withdrawing the implied right of access to my property from your organisation.

Please note that I am under no obligation to provide you with any of my details, including my name, and that since I am the legal occupier of this property I am entitled to withdraw your implied right of access.

This fact was confirmed by the BBC in June 2009 in response to FOI request RFI20090807. This response states that "TV Licensing does not legally require the name of an individual to action such a request".

Yours sincerely,

The Legal Occupier.

The letters soon stop...

Problem solved...

 

[Paul_C]

I've not bothered to go as far as writing to withdraw any implied right of access yet, as despite receiving threats of visits for about the last 10 years, I've yet to see any sign of a TVL goon. Probably because where I live is rural, has a lot of holiday homes, and is low down TVL's list of priorities. After just trashing the letters for a few years, my current policy is to just whack an "Unsolicited mail - No contract - Return to sender" sticker on and drop it back in the mail.

The experiences of others that I've read, however, is that even when trying to explain to TVL they will still try to suggest that they have some sort of "right" to send somebody round "to check." And even if they can be convinced in the short term, either by further insistence that a withdrawn implied right of access means what it says, or because somebody has let one of the aforementioned goons into his home (something you should never do voluntarily as a matter of principle) to snoop around and he's gone away satisfied, it seems that the letters stop for only a relatively short time, maybe a couple of years at the very most, but often only a few months. And, of course, if you dare to go and buy any sort of TV receiving device and give your real address, TVL considers that to be a valid reason to immediately start the harassment once again.

 

[Alarm]

And, of course, if you dare to go and buy any sort of TV receiving device and give your real address, TVL considers that to be a valid reason to immediately start the harassment once again.

Well they would be entitled to would they not? A device capable of watching live tv registered at an address pertaining to have no such equipment.

Pretty obvious the letters would start again.

 

[ellal]

Well they would be entitled to would they not? A device capable of watching live tv registered at an address pertaining to have no such equipment.

Pretty obvious the letters would start again.

Never bought anyone a present with a credit/debit card?....The address has to match up with the card's address.

 

[Alarm]

Yes I have, and actually a few times I have purchased a tv for relatives ( As I get decent deals and know what to get).
Your card details have to match yes, but the delivery address can be different and that can be used for TV licence purposes.

You must have misunderstood what the retailers were telling you.

Also how do we (Companies ) manage to purchase goods from suppliers and have the items delivered to clients when using the company card?

 

[ellal]

Yes I have, and actually a few times I have purchased a tv for relatives ( As I get decent deals and know what to get).
Your card details have to match yes, but the delivery address can be different and that can be used for TV licence purposes.

You must have misunderstood what the retailers were telling you.

Also how do we (Companies ) manage to purchase goods from suppliers and have the items delivered to clients when using the company card?

Afraid not...

The TVL use the (non company) card address as a port of call, irrespective of delivery address...

Been there, found that out...

 

[Paul_C]

Or even if not purchased as gift, it could have been purchased for use by the buyer at some other premises for which a license is in force. Or it could have been purchased for a use other than receiving broadcast TV. Or it could have been purchased to sell on to somebody else.

Anyone who has never tried to go without a TV license in more recent years perhaps doesn't realize the intimidatory and bullying nature of TVL's correspondence these days. It's all about threats, accusations, and implying at every opportunity that TVL has far more powers than is actually the case in order to frighten the uninitiated into getting a license, even when one is not actually required.

The letters are all worded in a way which is clearly intended to scare and intimidate: "Last chance to avoid action" will be printed on letters, and sometimes even the outside of the envelopes. The automated letters are churned out in a sequence which is clearly intended to suggest first that an "investigation" may be commenced if you don't buy a license or respond to the letter, then it's been passed on to some "regional enforcement" division, then a local office, then "an enforcement officer has been authorised to visit you at your home," and so on.

Even the use of terms like "enforcement officer" is clearly intended to imply that TVL (actually run by Capita now on behalf of the BBC) agents have far more powers than is the case. And then they'll say things like this "officer" being "authorised to interview you under caution in accordance with the Police and Criminal Evidence Act," which sort of implies that you are obliged to cooperate, answer questions, etc., which is not the case at all.

The overall tone of the letters nowadays really isn't too far removed from "Pay up or we'll send the boys round!"

 

[Alarm]

Yes I have, and actually a few times I have purchased a tv for relatives ( As I get decent deals and know what to get).
Your card details have to match yes, but the delivery address can be different and that can be used for TV licence purposes.

You must have misunderstood what the retailers were telling you.

Also how do we (Companies ) manage to purchase goods from suppliers and have the items delivered to clients when using the company card?

Afraid not...

The TVL use the (non company) card address as a port of call, irrespective of delivery address...

Been there, found that out...

Well i`m not going to go into a who can pee the highest but they use the delivery address, as its the one you put on the obligatory form you need to fill in.

 

[ellal]

Well i`m not going to go into a who can pee the highest but they use the delivery address, as its the one you put on the obligatory form you need to fill in.

You may not wish to 'pee the highest', but do tell - what 'obligatory form' is that then?

Never had to fill anything out using a NON COMPANY debit/credit card when puchasing a TV...

 

[Alarm]

Last few I purchased I had to sign a declaration that a licence was in place. In the stores ( Asda, Comet, Makro) a form was produced to indicate where the unit was to be used and wether it was licenced premesis.

Units I purchase for CCTV do not have reception capabilities anyway.

 

[Paul_C]

The legal obligation is for the dealer to notify the particulars of the sale of the equipment to TVL. Much of the old Wireless Telegraphy Act 1967 was consolidated into the new Communications Act 2003 a few years ago, but the part about dealer notification remains in those parts of the old act which are still in force, as amended over the years.

The obligatory form is the one which is provided by the dealer to TVL which is supposed to provide, if I recall correctly, the name and address of the buyer, and the address at which the set is to be installed, if different. But I don't think the big places turning out TV's and associated equipment these days are really asking about such precise details on every sale.

It's probably a case with most of them that if you pay using a private card, they just assume that it will be for use at the address which comes up as being associated with that card, and so use that address for the TVL notification. Perhaps it's the store's policy which determines whether they ask specifically for company cards etc. If you pay cash, then obviously they need to ask for a name and address, and you can give any address you like (the address of some government office or a BBC department is a good one to have handy for such occasions).

 

[Paul_C]

Units I purchase for CCTV do not have reception capabilities anyway.

And thus such video monitors do not come under the dealer notification requirements.

 

[Alarm]

Units I purchase for CCTV do not have reception capabilities anyway.

And thus such video monitors do not come under the dealer notification requirements.

Errrr thats what was implied.
Not for the televisions though, which I was refering to in the paragraph above the one you quote.