Ukraine counter offensive

[Vinty]

The big mistake the Russians made when they granted Ukraine independence, was that they didn't allow the different ethnic groups the right to secede and have their own states.
When Ireland was allowed independence by Britain, the British government recognised the right of not only Nationalists to self determination but Unionists as well.

 

[Notch7]

I'm surprised so many Ukrainians have been killed in the last two years.
Can you imagine the outcry in this country if the army had 70,000 killed in Afghanistan over the same period?

Im not sure what point you are making

 

[Notch7]

The big mistake the Russians made when they granted Ukraine independence, was that they didn't allow the different ethnic groups the right to secede and have their own states.

the Donbas and Crimea dont want to be different states

the troubles in Ukraine have been caused by Putin

 

[Vinty]

the protests were about the democratically elected massively corrupt president Yanukovych, who is a good mate of Putin

There you go Notch.
I have inserted the words democratically elected into your quote.
Hope that helps.

the EU did not incite the overthrow of a democratically elected government

At least you recognise that it was an elected government that was overthrown.

 

[Vinty]

the Donbas and Crimea dont want to be different states

Your delusional.

 

[Odds]

Im not sure what point you are making

You said Ukrainians were fighting for their existence and i pointed out they're paying a heavy price for Independence.
Close to 200,000 killed and wounded is a shocking number for their army to cope with, so it's no wonder they're reducing the age of conscription to 25 in order to withstand further Russian attacks.
Hard to imagine any UK government surviving such losses in Afghanistan. I think fewer than 500 soldiers were killed in seven years.

 

[denso13]

That was because large areas of Ukraine were excluded from voting.

Like Crimea? Yes, it had already been stolen by Putin. Large parts of the Donbas were run by Putin apologists who disrupted any election plans.

Its called gerrymandering.

Yes, and it didn't work for Putin.

 

[ajohn]

At least you recognise that it was an elected government that was overthrown.

Who it seems was in need of money which Russia would supply.

Donbas. Some of that relates to an earlier agreement relating to language used and political representation. The new government wanted none of that and in fact wants to completely end the use of the Russian language. A number of areas in Ukraine used that as their first language.

Crimea. A general view - staying Russian via a vote bound to happen. Hence no muttering about a rigged vote.

 

[denso13]

The new government wanted none of that and in fact wants to completely end the use of the Russian language.

Not really true,

Opinion:

Michael Moser is the author of

www.husj.harvard.edu

 

[denso13]

the Donbas and Crimea dont want to be different states

It has been verified by Russian authorities that, in the recent referendums, 5.2 million of the eligible 4 million voters, chose to remain Russian.

 

[Brigadier]

the Donbas and Crimea dont want to be different states

Your delusional.

Correct; after the 2014 annexation, they want to be Ukrainian again.

 

[ajohn]

Not really true,

There is plenty of information around about this particular area and other aspects prior to the invasion.

Anyway I have no wish to get involved in this thread. I will add that we may hear about another method of funding Ukraine in the near future but as usual with geopolitics there are worries and it may never happen.

 

[Stivino]

The ethnic Russians living eastern Ukraine predate the creation of the modern state of Ukraine.
Ironic you consider that the borders that Ukranians are fighting to defend were drawn up by the Russians.

If the ethnic Russians felt so strongly about, they should have gone across the border to their homeland. Ukraine's borders were recognised by the international community.
If I was living in Northumberland moaning about how sh!77y it was and how nobody speaks my language, it's only an hour on the train and I'm back in Edinburgh.

 

[Vinty]

Correct; after the 2014 annexation, they want to be Ukrainian again

Really.

 

[Vinty]

Not really true,

Opinion:

Michael Moser is the author of

www.husj.harvard.edu

Not really true.
The new language laws are what is known as cultural genocide.