Ukraine counter offensive

[Charlie George]

Didn't David Cameron say that he would to see the EU extend as far as the Urals.
Joe Biden wants to see regime change in Russia.
With attitudes like that, conflict seems inevitable.

Biden made that quote after russia invaded Ukraine, is putin the new gypsy Rose Lee.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Didn't David Cameron say that he would to see the EU extend as far as the Urals.
Joe Biden wants to see regime change in Russia.
With attitudes like that, conflict seems inevitable.

Remind me who invaded Ukraine?

I don't think it was the UK or USA. Ukraine as an independent country had the right to decide their own future, regardless of who else in the world liked or disliked it.

With attitudes like Putins, conflict isn't inevitable, it has already happened.

 

[Vinty]

The Ribbentrop-Molotov pact was always meant to hold the Russians whilst they defeated the western powers

It seems to have been forgotten that the Russians offered Britain a pact against Hitler but the British preferred to do a deal with Hitler.
Once war started, the allies bent over backwards to do deals with Russia.

 

[Deleted member 18243]

Considering how badly BBC presenters pronounce Scottish and Irish names (e.g Kirkudbright) I'm frankly amazed that they got Kyiv right

I don't blame anyone for mispronouncing Kirkcudbright, what a strange word! It is a lovely place however. (Kurrr-Koobrrree. Roll the Rs and emphasise the Koo).

Andy says that doesn't count, he has a cut off date seemingly.

The point I am making is about the cut-ON date and the subsequent "I've always spelled it that way" bleatings of the sheeple.

 

[fillyboy]

anyway back on topic. where's France?

View attachment 279677

Fair play to Poland, they probably have the highest number of refugees as well.

 

[motorbiking]

Looks like they have been pushed out of the top 10 by Denmark. Considering their military might, I'd have expected them to rank in the top 5.

 

[Notch7]

anyway back on topic. where's France?

France has committed to $2billion of humanitarian aid.

UK has given most in military aid not much in humanitarian aid, probably because Tory mates can make money out of it.

France will increase financial aid to Ukraine by $300 mln, Macron tells donor conference

France will increase its overall financial aid to Ukraine this year to $2 billion from 1.7 billion, President Emmanuel Macron said in a video address to an international donors' conference in Warsaw.

www.reuters.com

 

[Pat ex]

View attachment 279677

That chart is a bit like Mottie's find me a product (from aisle 2 in my local Sainsburys last week ) that was in short supply.
Here's another showing a longer timeframe:

 

[motorbiking]

So given what they SOLD to Ukraine, historically - even more reason for them to GIVE military aid. I also don't recall the Ukrainian leadership saying: What we need is more humanitarian aid, we have enough weapons.

No in fact Zelensky is constantly asking allies for more weapons.

What is not clear is if the 2.5bn of military aid pledged by the EU, include the above EU member contribution. In which case, given that Ukraine intends to join the EU and this was partly why Russia felt the need to act, that is pretty pathetic.

Ukraine has a real chance to turn this around. I would have hoped to see powerhouses like Germany and France, reaching deeper in to their pockets. I'd also expect the EU to be the number 2 contributor given its goals and size. You could argue they should have more skin in the game than the US.

 

[transam]

That bloke who is head (?) of the Wagner group has been touring prisons offering amnesty to convicts if they volunteer to go to the front line in Ukraine

If they do 6 months service they will receive amnesty ??

How ever if they attempt to do a runner while there they will be executed ???

 

[Pat ex]

So given what they SOLD to Ukraine, historically - even more reason for them to GIVE military aid.

As explained in that link, France does not disclose the amount of Military Aid given to Ukraine. So your comments are based on an unknown quantity. And your earlier comparison is of no use.

List of foreign aid to Ukraine during the Russo-Ukrainian War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[motorbiking]

I don't think a screen grab from wikipedia is definitive. There are plenty of sources that show their contribution, the French press etc. The fact remains they rank 11 out of 10 and that is pretty poor given the size of their arms industry.

 

[Justin Passing]

Another....

Ukraine Support Tracker - A Database of Military, Financial and Humanitarian Aid to Ukraine

The Ukraine Support Tracker lists and quantifies military, financial and humanitarian aid promised by governments to Ukraine.

www.ifw-kiel.de

Poland has almost delivered as much as USA.

A chart of efffectiveness on the ground would be interesting.
12 Howitzers don't make too much impact on a 2000 km front line.

 

[Pat ex]

I don't think a screen grab from wikipedia is definitive. There are plenty of sources that show their contribution, the French press etc. The fact remains they rank 11 out of 10 and that is pretty poor given the size of their arms industry.

According to your incomplete data set.

You could if you wanted to search for further confirmation that France does not disclose the amount of military aid to Ukraine, but then you'd destroy your own argument, and that wouldn't do, now would it.

France has been a major source of military support for Ukraine. Like most European nations, France has opted not to disclose details of its arms deliveries to Ukraine with the exception of the Caesar SPGs, the disclosure of which also served the purpose of publicly reaffirming France's support to Ukraine and sending a message of deterrence to Moscow.

Arms For Ukraine: French Weapons Deliveries To Kyiv

www.oryxspioenkop.com

 

[Justin Passing]

France is pretty low on the list(s), however you cut it.
I can't cite more than the recent attempts at talks, but I have the impression they've been relatively dove-ish to Russia over a long term. As was Germany, to be fair.
Countries will need to speak to each other long after the current dispute is done.