G
geraint
wrong again..... there has never been FULL employment in this country...
University Fees..
- Thread starter skitzee2k
- Start date
wrong again..... there has never been FULL employment in this country...
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How have you come up with this? sensible for you,your learning, will take you off my like list
"The architect of Britain’s welfare state, William Beveridge,
defined full employment as a rate of unemployment of no more than
three percent,"
Michael Stewart, Keynes and after (1972), p.301
Using that definition there was full employment from 1948 to 1970
See page 24 of
http://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons/lib/research/rp99/rp99-111.pdf
There was a general political consensus to adopt Keynsian interventionist policies following the war.
The prewar years had seen extremely high levels of unemployment and the nation wanted improved living standards after the horrors of war.
The commitment to full employment levels were attained primarilly through the creation of the welfare state, nationalisation and public expenditure.
ERGO we had full employment for 22 years
defined full employment as a rate of unemployment of no more than
three percent,"
Michael Stewart, Keynes and after (1972), p.301
Using that definition there was full employment from 1948 to 1970
See page 24 of
http://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons/lib/research/rp99/rp99-111.pdf
There was a general political consensus to adopt Keynsian interventionist policies following the war.
The prewar years had seen extremely high levels of unemployment and the nation wanted improved living standards after the horrors of war.
The commitment to full employment levels were attained primarilly through the creation of the welfare state, nationalisation and public expenditure.
ERGO we had full employment for 22 years
Following your logic
Junior doctors should pay to shadow consultants?
Soldiers/policemen/apprentices/paramedics/miners/everyone should pay for training?
Should school kids pay as well?
Can you see the flaw in your arguement?
Should we also retrospectively charge everyone that has ever been trained or taught?
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Lord Browne said that no student is liable for the debt only graduates earning more than 21k.
I think that many students will use this time in uni. as an extended well paid holiday. The prospect of a job for many will be low or on a low salary. They may never pay back the loan which for them would be a mind boggling amount.
I do feel sorry for them. Since its certain people in our generation that's messed it up for them.
I cannot imagine how I would feel living at home with Mum & Dad, writing job applications by the dozen with a 30-40k debt around my neck.
I think that many students will use this time in uni. as an extended well paid holiday. The prospect of a job for many will be low or on a low salary. They may never pay back the loan which for them would be a mind boggling amount.
I do feel sorry for them. Since its certain people in our generation that's messed it up for them.
I cannot imagine how I would feel living at home with Mum & Dad, writing job applications by the dozen with a 30-40k debt around my neck.
Just had another thought. What if they don't get a degree. Are they still graduates?
Wiki says.Graduate or University Graduate or College graduate someone who has been awarded a degree by a university or college.
So, does that mean some of them will not have to pay back the loan?
Wiki says.Graduate or University Graduate or College graduate someone who has been awarded a degree by a university or college.
So, does that mean some of them will not have to pay back the loan?
wreckdit i think it would
well we always reward failure in this country
well we always reward failure in this country
Indeed, and as you pointed out earlier, graduates are more likely to pay more taxes over their life time.
Given that why is it then fair that they be left with what is basically another tax on top of that?
it is true that students don't have to pay a bean until their earnings reach a given level but the debt continues to grow. In the past that rate of increase was pretty much static being at zero percent in real terms. Now that too is being changed.
The perception of students being in a perpetual state of insobriety is vastly outdated. Unless you have rich and generous parents then student life is far from being a 3 year Bachanean orgy.
When i went to uni there were still maintenance grants (mine was 3 grand pa, it was less than my annual rent), they had been frozen but never-the-less they still existed. The student loans were being phased in. At the time there were many students who took the loans out and paid them into high interest earnings accounts (because in real terms the loans were interest free)- these were the people from more affluent back grounds that didn't need the money to live.
From memory I think that my direct state "handout" was less than a third of the money that an unemployed person in the same area would have received given that their accommodation etc would have been paid for.
The proposed changes will lead to a massive increase in unemployment in school leavers and will impact on people studying subjects that are less likely to reward them with higher wages.
Employers will be forced to look overseas for skilled staff. British universities will lose their perception as being centres of excellence and the number of foreign students will taper off.
Britain will end up being a country of cheap unskilled labour.
Our students are (hopefully) the future of our country.....
Just my opinion, but if they complete their course and graduate, I think if they work in Britain for say 5 years, any course fee debt should be written off.
John
Good idea, and we can increase the income tax for basic rate payers to 25% and higher rate payers to 45% to pay for it.
The idea is to cut spending, not increase it.
And which universities offer a degree in Klingon?
I do think that there has been a culture of "dumbing down"/sexing up degrees as universities compete for students but is this the fault of students?
Are they also to blame for school exams becoming easier and the fact that the Sun is the biggest selling paper in the country, that the BBC and Channel 3 have airing schedules packed with celebs performing pointless acts?
Our students are (hopefully) the future of our country.....
Just my opinion, but if they complete their course and graduate, I think if they work in Britain for say 5 years, any course fee debt should be written off.
John
Good idea, and we can increase the income tax for basic rate payers to 25% and higher rate payers to 45% to pay for it.
The idea is to cut spending, not increase it.
Actually the idea is to improve the state of the economy in the longer term.
Our students are (hopefully) the future of our country.....
Just my opinion, but if they complete their course and graduate, I think if they work in Britain for say 5 years, any course fee debt should be written off.
John
Good idea, and we can increase the income tax for basic rate payers to 25% and higher rate payers to 45% to pay for it.
The idea is to cut spending, not increase it.
Actually the idea is to improve the state of the economy in the longer term.
Yeah, off course that’s always the target. But in the current climate, the government needs to think of a sustainable way of offering higher education, while keeping the system fair.
Once the students graduate and get a good job, then there is nothing wrong with them having to pay the loan back. Maybe interest free loan for all students would be better, but I don’t see that happening.
Well off parents can pay for their children. Admission should never be based on who and how someone will pay for the courses.
But if the Government was to adopt a system of wiping off a loan after 5 years of employment in the UK, then every tax payer would have to pay more in taxes.
36 grand in tuitons fees plus 15 grand rent plus about £7500 plus books etc (ie pretty much £60k debit- excluding interest).
How long will that someone on £22k pa to pay off???
Ok, so if you are still in debt by the time you get your pension you will not be required to make any payments but the debts will still be recoverable from your estate.
Perhaps it is supposed to be an incentive to make parents work past retirement so that they can help their kids.
Surely a more equitable system would/might involve a progressive graduate tax. The more you earn- a higher percentage you contribute.
How long will that someone on £22k pa to pay off???
Ok, so if you are still in debt by the time you get your pension you will not be required to make any payments but the debts will still be recoverable from your estate.
Perhaps it is supposed to be an incentive to make parents work past retirement so that they can help their kids.
Surely a more equitable system would/might involve a progressive graduate tax. The more you earn- a higher percentage you contribute.
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