University Fees..

[AndrewSchofield]

I totally agree with students having to pay their own tuition fees - I can't think of a logical argument why they shouldn't. They are choosing to further their own learning/career so why not pay for it? I live in a rural area with limited public transport so in order for me to get and keep the job i want, I need a car, should the government subsidize my driving lessons, give me a car, pay for my fuel for my commute and tax and insure the car for me? I think not. I could get a job down the road and I wouldn't need a car, but I choose to get a better job, which requires me to commute so I accept that to make that happen i'll have to fund a car.

One of my friends from school started a mechanical engineering course at Uni and failed the first year, at which point he switched course to some form of psycology - he graduated and got a job on the check-out at the local supermarket, he now works in the procurement office at a local hospital - his career bears no relation whatsoever to the course he did at Uni and he could have got his job with no degree at all - four years at Uni wasted and tax payers paid for it all.

Of the debt of £21,000 that the 'average' student leaves Uni with are there any figures as to what percentage of this was spent on socialising and drinking? I take on board an earlier post that not all students get drunk every day, but I think its fair to say that most students drink plenty. I'd like to bet that at least 90% of students spend far more money on alcholol each week than I can afford to do.

 

[skitzee2k]

How is the next generation paying for anything...except their own debts?

If someone wants someone to teach them something ....you pay them. Simple.

Following your logic

Junior doctors should pay to shadow consultants?

Soldiers/policemen/apprentices/paramedics/miners/everyone should pay for training?

Should school kids pay as well?

Can you see the flaw in your arguement?

Should we also retrospectively charge everyone that has ever been trained or taught?

No, no flaw. Junior doctors do pay for their training by working for less money.

And think about this logically, if someone wanted to learn the entire index of eastenders episodes who pays for that? By your argument ' someone else'..which I guess you mean the tax payer. Bear in mind there is a huge difference between being taught and learning on the job. if you're working for a company and they wanna make you better at it, that's up to them.

 

[ellal]

Surely a more equitable system would/might involve a progressive graduate tax. The more you earn- a higher percentage you contribute.

We already have that...it's called tax banding, and since graduates (apparently) earn more, then they pay more in the long run.

And the amount of funding needed for 'free' university education is less than our repeated 'expeditions' overseas, so it's fairly obvious that priorities are completely wrong!

But politically it makes sense for the system as I've already stated...

And in addition to enslaving the next generations, it also effectively snuffs out radicalism/protest - because the young with nothing to lose challenge the establishment. Now they have an awful lot to lose, so will tend to toe the line more readily.

That is so evident with the lack of action over this by students themselves!

 

[EddieM]

If they don't get at least a 2-2 after their first year they should be sent home.

Not all students get drunk and party all night.

The students that do really well shouldn't have to pay back anything as they'll spend all their lives paying higher taxes.

Yoof today, bloody lightweights...... "Not all students get drunk and party all night." I did, still got a first and didn't pay a penny for it, excellent!

 

[WestmidsChippy]

Surely a more equitable system would/might involve a progressive graduate tax. The more you earn- a higher percentage you contribute.

We already have that...it's called tax banding, and since graduates (apparently) earn more, then they pay more in the long run.

And the amount of funding needed for 'free' university education is less than our repeated 'expeditions' overseas, so it's fairly obvious that priorities are completely wrong!

But politically it makes sense for the system as I've already stated...

And in addition to enslaving the next generations, it also effectively snuffs out radicalism/protest - because the young with nothing to lose challenge the establishment. Now they have an awful lot to lose, so will tend to toe the line more readily.

That is so evident with the lack of action over this by students themselves!

SPOT ON!

 

[joe-90]

We aren't used to intelligent comment around here. I canna take it.

 

[WestmidsChippy]

that is why i said spot on :S

 

[skitzee2k]

I wouldn't wish a tax on anyone so do not support graduate taxes.....paying for what you owe is completely different.

Imagine another scenario like learning to play an instrument. Should someone get a tax to pay for it? Or should it be free? Or should the person wishing to learn just pay the tuition fees?

I support people wanting to further themselves so am glad the government are making it easier...study now, pay when you can, etc ...but I don't think my tax should pay outright for someone else furthering their career and income.

 

[opps]

Surely a more equitable system would/might involve a progressive graduate tax. The more you earn- a higher percentage you contribute.

We already have that...it's called tax banding, and since graduates (apparently) earn more, then they pay more in the long run.

And the amount of funding needed for 'free' university education is less than our repeated 'expeditions' overseas, so it's fairly obvious that priorities are completely wrong!

But politically it makes sense for the system as I've already stated...

And in addition to enslaving the next generations, it also effectively snuffs out radicalism/protest - because the young with nothing to lose challenge the establishment. Now they have an awful lot to lose, so will tend to toe the line more readily.

That is so evident with the lack of action over this by students themselves!

Whilst I agree with much of what you say have you forgotten that the number of young unemployed in the early thatcher years that considered that they had nothing to lose and decided to riot?

Maybe the money saved will be used to roll out another ill fated YTS scheme...

Oh well, we wont have any engineers but we will have millions of young people who know how to sweep the floor and make tea.

 

[WestmidsChippy]

Surely a more equitable system would/might involve a progressive graduate tax. The more you earn- a higher percentage you contribute.

We already have that...it's called tax banding, and since graduates (apparently) earn more, then they pay more in the long run.

And the amount of funding needed for 'free' university education is less than our repeated 'expeditions' overseas, so it's fairly obvious that priorities are completely wrong!

But politically it makes sense for the system as I've already stated...

And in addition to enslaving the next generations, it also effectively snuffs out radicalism/protest - because the young with nothing to lose challenge the establishment. Now they have an awful lot to lose, so will tend to toe the line more readily.

That is so evident with the lack of action over this by students themselves!

Whilst I agree with much of what you say have you forgotten that the number of young unemployed in the early thatcher years that considered that they had nothing to lose and decided to riot?

Maybe the money saved will be used to roll out another ill fated YTS scheme...

Oh well, we wont have any engineers but we will have millions of young people who know how to sweep the floor and make tea.

Are you too old to move country or have i missed something?

 

[ellal]

I support people wanting to further themselves so am glad the government are making it easier...study now, pay when you can, etc ...but I don't think my tax should pay outright for someone else furthering their career and income.

On the other hand, those who are furthering their careers will be supporting you in your dotage through their higher taxes...but what happens if a degree becomes economically worthless in the long run?

Severing the generational link is to deny the idea of 'society', which by coincidence is what a certain old b*tch also thought, who is celebrating her 85th (and hopefully last) birthday today!

 

[ellal]

Whilst I agree with much of what you say have you forgotten that the number of young unemployed in the early thatcher years that considered that they had nothing to lose and decided to riot?

Maybe the money saved will be used to roll out another ill fated YTS scheme...

Oh well, we wont have any engineers but we will have millions of young people who know how to sweep the floor and make tea.

But is it better to have tens of thousands of over-educated debt laden people sweeping those floors due to a lack of 'proper jobs' that are 'promised' to a graduate?

 

[diane1]

I got a first

omg....tall, handsome......and educated!!..........swoon.......

 

[opps]

Are you too old to move country or have i missed something?

Hello kettle!!!

I complain that students are being forced to pay for the mistakes of others and you suggest that I move abroad.

So are your opions more valid just because you b!tch at everyone and about everything???

 

[opps]

Hi ellal

How can you be overeducated?