VAT on education?

[motorbiking]

confirming that they do indeed get state funding..

what about Germany... another similar country.

shhh motorbiking everyone knows Germany also gives state funding to private schools.

 

[Mrs Ten Names]

confirming that they do indeed get state funding..

what about Germany... another similar country.

shhh motorbiking everyone knows Germany also gives state funding to private schools.

The government's support and mainly finance private education to make it affordable to anyone.
That is also the reason why VAT is not normally applied to education services in EU.

So the private education in UK is a very different model to that in EU countries, where entry requirements are much more about academic ability.
In UK the entry requirement is simply, can the parents afford the fees.

A better comparison for France and Germany would be like requiring the parents to make a contribution toward (the French and German equivalent) Grammar or Technical school, education.

 

[JohnD]

No you make a comparison which is nonsense.

It is possible to have a country with good quality state education

It is possible to have a country where private education by businesses is subject to VAT

It is possible to have a country where non-state schools are supported by the state

It is possible to have a country where profit-making companies are not allowed to charge for education.

None of that is nonsense.

Your suggestion that the size of a country makes some of these possible or impossible is nonsense.

 

[motorbiking]

It is possible to have a country with good quality state education

We already do. We rank rather well.

It is possible to have a country where non-state schools are supported by the state

By charging them VAT you mean, making it more expensive?

You're really on one this morning.

 

[Mrs Ten Names]

It is possible to have a country with good quality state education

And state sponsored education, with parents paying a small additional contribution for gifted children.

 

[Mrs Ten Names]

By charging them VAT you mean, making it more expensive?

Because the UK is a different model than other countries.
The UK model is all about affordability. Other country's models are all about academic ability.

 

[motorbiking]

The Elite getting unfair subsidies?

Surely those with special needs are more deserving than the gifted?

I'd rather those that struggled got help, not those that don't.

Generally helping those that struggle is good for society, to help them get jobs and pay taxes.

 

[securespark]

It’s not a vat increase at all. It’s a 20% increase on education costs if the vat has to be charged. Don’t assume that because they are being privately educated that their parents have bottomless pockets. What if the parents can’t afford the vat element so have to withdraw the kid. Where would they go and who would pay?

All the parents I have known that have sent their children to private schools will have no problem (fiscally, at least) paying the extra. The only case where VAT should not be charged on private education fees is in the case of students who are offered a scholarship or bursary.
That is why private schools register as charities, to enable collection of funds in order to make provision for these kids.

 

[ajohn]

Quite a large group of people sending their kids to private school are doing so, because the state school cannot cope with their educational needs.

SEND is covered by some private schools. The state system has something similar but pass on the actual name. Special needs effectively that can relate to all sorts of problems but it has to be applied for.

ISC independent schools are among the best in the world and educate more than 500,000 children in the UK. The ISC brings together seven associations to represent over 1,400 independent schools and was founded in 1974.
That is all types. Including pure SEND????

A lot of those are rather small.
There is not a single type of independent school. The ISC represents over 1,400 schools with real diversity of provision. ISC schools vary significantly in size from having fewer than 50 pupils to nearly 2,500, although half of all schools have fewer than 290 pupils. Over half of schools are non-selective and 74% are not for-profit. Almost 19% of pupils at ISC schools have SEND.

There are over 10,000,000 state school places. Birth rates are having an effect on needs looked at via age.

I know several people who went to the grammar school I mentioned via paying for it. I wouldn't refer to the parents as rich - more well paid, well over the average but not dramatic. For B'ham it's seen as the best of it's type. I aslo know 2 that were coached to help pass the entrance exam. It's a thing some teachers do in their own time. Obviously it's expensive. Another version gets refered to as being crammed. It's done the same way.

I have known people from Eton and also Gordonstoun. Totally different "class". 2 others from middling. Best they could do with one was an A Level in woodwork. He thought us state lot would be jealous and was surprised that we were not. The other a bit better but odd ball. Last thing I heard was his dad had kicked him out. Must have been a disappointment.

VAT - i think all of these people will just pay it.

Me. My wife was privately educated during the Junior stage. She wanted the same for our son so I paid for it. Part of the bill split. Some of the effects were interesting including choice of which state senior school. The main difference with the private sector is the general environment within them not necessarily the pure educational aspects.

 

[Mrs Ten Names]

The Elite getting unfair subsidies?

The academic elite enter the private schools in EU.
That's less unfair than the UK model of simply affordability.

Surely those with special needs are more deserving than the gifted?
I'd rather those that struggled got help, not those that don't.
Generally helping those that struggle is good for society, to help them get jobs and pay taxes.

Not more, but equally.
But we are discussing private education not special needs, nor are we comparing the hierarchy of worthiness.

 

[motorbiking]

So you'd support the idea that families of children with Special Educational Needs should be exempt from Government plans to put VAT on independent school?

 

[Mrs Ten Names]

So you'd support the idea that families of children with Special Educational Needs should be exempt from Government plans to put VAT on independent school?

Of course:

Exceptions to the VAT charge​

There are some exceptions to the VAT charge, where fees will remain exempt from VAT.  These are nursery classes and schools that have been approved under section 342 of the Education Act, i.e. non-maintained special schools.  HMRC’s technical note explains that funding will be provided for pupils that are placed in a private school because their needs cannot be accommodated in state sector schools.

VAT on independent school fees | Kreston Reeves

Following the Labour Party’s manifesto promise to tax private school fees, the sector’s wait for clarification on what income streams VAT will apply to and

www.krestonreeves.com

Wouldn't you support it?

But the thread is about fee-paying private education for only those that can afford it.

You are persistent in trying to divert the discussion.

 

[Mrs Ten Names]

If they're targeting international students then state education numbers don't count and the buyers are less price sensitive anyway.

Students from abroad will also need to pay the VAT

It should be noted that overseas feepayers will still be subject to the VAT charge, as the place of supply for VAT purposes is where the services of education are performed, regardless of the location of the feepayer.

VAT on independent school fees | Kreston Reeves

Following the Labour Party’s manifesto promise to tax private school fees, the sector’s wait for clarification on what income streams VAT will apply to and

www.krestonreeves.com

 

[motorbiking]

Of course:

VAT on independent school fees | Kreston Reeves

Following the Labour Party’s manifesto promise to tax private school fees, the sector’s wait for clarification on what income streams VAT will apply to and

www.krestonreeves.com

Wouldn't you support it?

But the thread is about fee-paying private education for only those that can afford it.

You are persistent in trying to divert the discussion.

I refer you to the original post, its not me attempting to divert.

Students from abroad will also need to pay the VAT

VAT on independent school fees | Kreston Reeves

Following the Labour Party’s manifesto promise to tax private school fees, the sector’s wait for clarification on what income streams VAT will apply to and

www.krestonreeves.com

You understand those parents of kids with special needs are also subject to the new VAT on their kids' private education?

 

[ajohn]

private education not special needs

As you have noticed now SEND is a feature of some private schools. It also can apply to state schools - on the face of it any one of them but it has to be applied for. I hear it may not be easy to get but do know someone who succeeded. The reasons relate to learning difficulties. TBH I don't think it works well in all cases and has never really been fully worked out. Costs figure so using some private facilities does probably make sense.

State special schools are an entirely different area. They only take extremes.