Vive La France!

[Notch7]

Believing that all lives are equal isn't dangerous.

Vinty refuses to address these:

1) that making abortion illegal does not lower abortion rates
2) making abortion illegal results in a lifetime of poverty for some women
3) making abortion illegal results in women using backstreet abortion clinics
4) Vinty wants children brought up in poverty but refuses to offer to pay more taxes for it

 

[Odds]

other Means whatsoever with the like Intent,

in the voice of Yoda, said that, did you not?

 

[JonathanM]

But it doesn't really matter, Abortion is widely available and the legal test very low.

What do you think about making it a legal right to have an abortion? (obviously subject to the current time limit)

 

[Notch7]

Its a quirk of statute.. In most situations things are legal unless made illegal. For things that are illegal we often have reasonable excuse arguments (e.g. criminal damage, self defence etc). In this case the offences against the person act makes it illegal to have one or to provide drugs or tools to enable it. Sec 58, says she must not cause a miscarriage and you must not help her to achieve the same - you risk life in prison. Sec 59 makes it illegal to supply tools or drugs for the same.

Offences against the Person Act 1861

An Act to consolidate and amend the Statute Law of England and Ireland relating to Offences against the Person.

www.legislation.gov.uk

The Abortion Act, basically over rules this. Had it been done today, they would have probably amended the offences against the person act.

But it doesn't really matter, Abortion is widely available and the legal test very low. Personally I think it should be recorded, even the provision of do it yourself drugs. It would be very easy for a woman to fake few pregnancy tests and phone up for abortion drugs in under 10 weeks and then pass them to someone who had say been refused an unlawful late abortion. There seem to be a dozen or so cases like this being investigated.

abortion requires the approval of 2 doctors

your argument about it being a low bar does not alter that fact

 

[JonathanM]

Apparently the law is different in Northern Ireland. There is a legal right to abortion up to 12 weeks.

After that it seems to similar to the rest of the UK

The Abortion (Northern Ireland) Regulations 2020

These Regulations make provision for the purpose of regulating abortions in Northern Ireland following the repeal, by section 9 of the Northern Ireland (Executive Formation etc) Act 2019, of sections 58 and 59 of the Offences against the Person Act 1861.

www.legislation.gov.uk

Pregnancy not exceeding 12 weeks

3. A registered medical professional may terminate a pregnancy where a registered medical professional is of the opinion, formed in good faith, that the pregnancy has not exceeded its 12th week.

Risk to physical or mental health where pregnancy not exceeding 24 weeks

4.—(1) A registered medical professional may terminate a pregnancy where two registered medical professionals are of the opinion, formed in good faith, that—

(a)the pregnancy has not exceeded its 24th week; and

(b)the continuance of the pregnancy would involve risk of injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman which is greater than if the pregnancy were terminated.

(2) In forming an opinion as to the matter mentioned in paragraph (1)(b), account may be taken of the pregnant woman’s actual or reasonably foreseeable circumstances.

 

[motorbiking]

Wrong. There are other grounds which the assessment considers. Financial and environment is also assessed.


Your (strawman) posting the figures for abortion, will not change that, boyo. The law states....

It's just simpler to put it down to mental issues. Stick that in your strawman.

none of that is a requirement, however. FYI Good Faith, has legal meaning

 

[motorbiking]

What do you think about making it a legal right to have an abortion? (obviously subject to the current time limit)

I see no reason to change something that is working very well.

 

[JonathanM]

I see no reason to change something that is working very well.

I got the impression that you thought the bar was so low as to be meaningless.

 

[motorbiking]

A sham. ?

There does appear to be widespread batching and pre-signing. But there are all sorts of bits of paper and forms that must be filled out by doctors.

Failure to fill out the form doesn’t make the abortion illegal as it’s nothing to do with the criteria and the exemption. Forming an opinion in good faith is all that is needed. That has clear legal meaning.

 

[JonathanM]

Failure to fill out the form doesn’t make the abortion illegal as it’s nothing to do with the criteria and the exemption. Forming an opinion in good faith is all that is needed. That has clear legal meaning.

You keep repeating that. But nobody is disagreeing with you.

I got the impression that you thought the bar was so low as to be meaningless. Why continue with it. If you believe that abortion is available de facto on request, why not just make it available on request.

 

[JonathanM]

Or maybe copy Northern Ireland where it is a legal right up to 12 weeks.

 

[Odds]

"why not just make it available on request."

That's what feminists are trying to achive, it seems to me: a consultation with a doctor; complaints of 'mental health' issues. He signs the prescription and off she toddles to get the job done. Nice n' easy.

 

[motorbiking]

How does a woman simply declaring that she doesn't want to have the baby fit into one of the exceptions? This isn't a trap! I'm just interested. I think someone might have mentioned earlier that the fact giving birth has a higher risk than abortion was enough to fit the exception? Or is it simply that forcing someone to have a baby when they don't want to will always be counted as damaging to their mental health? Or perhaps both of these?

It’s down to the fact, all things being equal. That giving birth is on its own a very risky business for the woman. Therefore an abortion early on is most likely to be less risk to the woman than going full term. Add to the fact that the woman doesn’t want to continue with the pregnancy, you have clear level of distress. There is no minimum criteria. This is explained in one of the papers on the legal position in one of the guidelines, I already posted.

 

[motorbiking]

You keep repeating that. But nobody is disagreeing with you.

I got the impression that you thought the bar was so low as to be meaningless. Why continue with it. If you believe that abortion is available de facto on request, why not just make it available on request.

Not meaningless. But low.

Again. I see no point in changing something that works.

 

[noseall]

How does a woman simply declaring that she doesn't want to have the baby fit into one of the exceptions?

She can request, declare and beg, but won't get abortion treatment unless it is approved by two doctors.