Vive La France!

[Notch7]

I'm 100% correct, but it's a massive climb down for you and Noseall. JonathanM had a read, got his head around it, in about 5 minutes. Why can't you.

No you are wrong.

Please tell me what happens if form HSA1 is not signed.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

There is no need to approve anything. The form is even called a certificate of opinion. Failure to sign the form does not make the abortion illegal. It's the forming of opinion that makes it legal. A judge is not going the hand a prison sentence to someone who failed to fill out a form.

Sec 2,3 of the act says the failure must be wilful and the penalty is a level 5 fine - that a pretty big fine potentially.

If 2 doctors are not of the opinion needed, what happens?

You said before that she then finds 2 doctors who do have the opinion that is needed. If 2 more don't agree she has to keep going until she finds 2 doctors who are of the opinion needed.

So she needs the 2 doctors.

It is that simple.

Stop swerving

 

[motorbiking]

Nobody is arguing that two doctors are not required to form the opinion that the abortion meets the lawful criteria.

Literally nobody.

 

[Notch7]

I'm 100% correct, but it's a massive climb down for you and Noseall. JonathanM had a read, got his head around it, in about 5 minutes. Why can't you.

JonathanM hasn’t got his head around anything, he is trying a strawman just like you.

 

[Notch7]

Nobody is arguing that two doctors are not required to form the opinion that the abortion meets the lawful criteria.

Literally nobody.

And once they’ve done that, they sign the form to approve the abortion.

It’s not hard.

 

[Notch7]

I'm 100% correct, but it's a massive climb down for you and Noseall. JonathanM had a read, got his head around it, in about 5 minutes. Why can't you.

If you are 100% correct why do you keep avoiding this:

“What happens if form HSA1 is not signed?”

If you are 100% correct you would find it easy to answer.

 

[motorbiking]

no - he's trying to explain to the forum dumb dumbs the parts of the act that provide the exemption, the role of the doctors and the separate requirement for documentation which has nothing to do with sec 1.

Nobody approves the abortion. That is not their role in the abortion act. Signing the certificate of opinion, simply documents that they believe the criteria are met based on a good faith opinion.

It is easy to answer.

1. If the opinion was formed in good faith - the abortion is lawful
2. If the failure to sign HSA1 was not wilful - there is no offence.

Simple enough.. ?

 

[Odds]

Nobody is arguing that two doctors are not required to form the opinion that the abortion meets the lawful criteria.

Literally nobody.

the number reached is now four - do keep up.

 

[motorbiking]

who?

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Nobody is arguing that two doctors are not required to form the opinion that the abortion meets the lawful criteria.

Literally nobody.

So she needs 2 doctors

Bj jove, we are getting there.

So how do these doctors confirm their opinion? Verbally ? No records ?

 

[Notch7]

no - he's trying to explain to the forum dumb dumbs the parts of the act that provide the exemption, the role of the doctors and the separate requirement for documentation which has nothing to do with sec 1.

Nobody approves the abortion. That is not their role in the abortion act. Signing the certificate of opinion, simply documents that they believe the criteria are met based on a good faith opinion.

It is easy to answer.

1. If the opinion was formed in good faith - the abortion is lawful
2. If the failure to sign HSA1 was not wilful - there is no offence.

Simple enough.. ?

All completely and utterly wrong

Please say what happens if form HSA1 is not signed.

Either

A) the abortion still goes ahead

Or

B) the abortion does not proceed


Which is it?

 

[Odds]

who?

That's Doctor Who, to you, laddie.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

no - he's trying to explain to the forum dumb dumbs the parts of the act that provide the exemption, the role of the doctors and the separate requirement for documentation which has nothing to do with sec 1.

Nobody approves the abortion. That is not their role in the abortion act. Signing the certificate of opinion, simply documents that they believe the criteria are met based on a good faith opinion.

It is easy to answer.

1. If the opinion was formed in good faith - the abortion is lawful
2. If the failure to sign HSA1 was not wilful - there is no offence.

Simple enough.. ?

And if the failure to sign was deliberate ?

 

[noseall]

There is no need to approve anything. The form is even called a certificate of opinion. Failure to sign the form does not make the abortion illegal. It's the forming of opinion that makes it legal. A judge is not going the hand a prison sentence to someone who failed to fill out a form.

Sec 2,3 of the act says the failure must be wilful and the penalty is a level 5 fine - that a pretty big fine potentially.

Requirement for two doctors' signatures

84. The Abortion Act 1967 requires that an abortion under ground A to E is certified by two doctors, who must each sign a Department of Health HSA 1 form to give notification that the abortion has been approved and on what grounds, and an HSA 4 form for information including patient details, the method of abortion and gestation time.

85. A range of explanations have been given for the introduction of the requirement for two doctors' signatures:

• to ensure that the provisions in the legislation were being observed ;[96]
• to protect women;[97]
• to protect doctors from breaking the law ;[98]
• to demonstrate the medico-legal concerns of Parliament, namely that the 1967 Act did not make abortion legal but conferred upon doctors a defence against illegality—the two doctors are expected to police each other; [99]
• to show the seriousness of the decision to terminate; [100]

 

[noseall]

MBK, it’s not our fault you are wrong,

He's been shown up by a builder and a woman's magazine. Give the lad a break.