Water getting in around window. Fix?

[Mr. Clueless]

I'm getting really P'd off with this. It seems like it's never ending. All i want is to crack on with the living room so we can have a 'normal' house instead of living upstairs but there's no point in decorating when there's all this still going on.

I laid the silicone on a good chunk yesterday as i took advantage of the warmer temperature & the dry day. Made sure to get it right in to the corner, cover the PVC & the dashing well.

It really put some rain down throughout the night all the way through to dinner time today. I get home hoping the silicone had done its job (but in the back of my mind knowing it hadn't).....

it hadn't.

The better side had small sections of dark plaster - so it's got wet after it'd dried out yesterday.

The bad side was kind of difficult to tell since it's never totally dried out. It's really wet. So i can't be 100% sure whether the bad side is worse or no different.

Then to top it off, the PVC door/step had allowed water in & it was this i was most confident in. Wonderful.

 

[Gazman16]

No reason that you cannot decorate the rest of the room and just leave the window reveals for now.
You say you had damp work done, Will they come back and look at it under guarantee?

Either way next step is going to be to chop back a bit of plaster in the worst bottom corner to see whats going on.

 

[Mikefromlondon]

Its never easy, if you hose some water over your windows for a few minutes, and then let the exterior dry up or you wipe it dry from the outside, then go back inside and gently open your window, and look around the inside of the frame, is there any sign of water penetration, if so then you know water is getting in through the weak gasket or seal against the opening and the frame,

 

[Mr. Clueless]

Regards those who did the work - i'm waiting on them coming out. I've been in touch a few times.

Is there any sort of 'seal' as such on the inside that could've been disturbed with all the work going on?

No doubt all that fluffy insulation on the inside will now be piddle-wet-through.

 

[Mr. Clueless]

This is stumping me more & more.

So this morning i had the hosepipe on the job. Had it pointing at the corners of the window for a good while. Even had it running from the top for a good while. Small side window & large main window.

NOTHING!

Maybe i'm thinking too far ahead with this, but my wife dug out the sealant, so now there's a 'hole' leading in behind the plaster on the main window, each side.
Now could there be cold air behind this meeting the warm air from the living room & causing condensation?
I would've thought i'm clutching at straws there because it only ever happens when it rains.

Yet with the hosepipe direct on it it didn't form any dark wet patches on the plaster.

I had a mixture of a fairly good spray setting & gushing water.

BUT the really bad corner IS getting worse. It's not increasing outwards but it is upwards.

Same situation for the door but i'll post that in the other thread.

 

[Mikefromlondon]

After hosing it down, preferably from the top of the window, not corners, did you wipe surplus water drops from around the opening, and then went inside and gently opened the window to see if the inner frame is dry, and there should be absolutely no sign of any water drips or a pool of water, not a single drop anywhere along the inner frame sections.

Spraying with a hose may not always work, once a while ago, I sent may car to a dealer to have its front passenger door repaired as someone had dented it in a car park.

Whilst it was at the dealer, I also asked them to replace my front windscreen as it had got a bad crack in an MOT critical area. a week alter I collected my car, all fine. then two weeks later there was a large ankle deep puddle on the passenger side footwell, I took it back to the dealer thinking it must be the new windscreen they put on might be leaking.

They poured water with a hose for about 5 minutes yet nothing came through !

baffled as I was, I drove home, i dried the floor and carpet, and then a month later there was a puddle again, and I realised the only way to find where it is coming from is to it go inside my car when it is raining, so one day it had been raining all night, so I took my torch and got into the car, and I am seeing drips coming in from the repaired door!

Got it, the rain drops were making their way into the door through the gap between the door and the front wing, and landing on the cable that controls central locking, windows, and door speakers, so the water was landing on the cable running along and entering the door and eventually falling or dripping inside the car, I made a small loop on that door cable and also put some silicone to stop it getting in any more.

So like wise, check your window frames inside when it had been raining all day or night.

 

[Mr. Clueless]

Yeah inside the frame (where the shutters are & the drain holes) is perfectly dry.

I would've thought if it was dripping down then there would be signs down the wall, but there's not. The damp plaster is also from the inside out.

The chap who did the work wondered if while they were knocking plaster off & such, they may have disturbed something/loosened something etc & this is causing the leak.

As each 'test' goes by i'm thinking more & more they'll have to take that plaster off & inspect. The insulation behind there must be soaking now.

 

[Mikefromlondon]

I am sure you will eventually get to locate the source of your leak, keep at it and don't give up, these sort of things really take a while to find out sometimes.
and usually not from where you expected it.

Also can I clear what i meant by the window frame, I meant not the wooden frame but the actual double glazing frame,

 

[Harc]

Hi, I had the same problem after getting hallway newly plastered it was happening to both my upstairs and downstairs windows, had the window people out numerous times and they couldn't solve it, thankfully my windows were still under guarantee. It didn't happen every time it rained it only seemed to happen with driving rain and depending which way the wind was blowing would result in what side of the windows would be soaked.

In the end I paid to have the pointing redone around both windows thinking it must be that causing the problem but it wasn't, within half an hour of the chap leaving my house the plaster was soaked (it was a dry day when the pointing was done) so I phoned him up to ask if he had wet the sills and he said yes he had, he had squirted water over the window sills to clean them down when he was finishing off.

So I got googling and watched you tube videos on installing windows and learnt more about fitting windows than I ever cared to know. I then phoned the window people up to tell them what the problem was, they hadn't siliconed the edge of the frame to the sill and I was right and they ended up having to reinstall both windows all because the fitter hadn't bothered to silicone at the edges when he installed them . Both windows have been dry ever since. (for info my house has solid brick walls)

Don't know if this will be of any help to you but it might help someone else in the future.

Hope you get it sorted soon as I know how frustrated you will be feeling.

Sarah

 

[Mikefromlondon]

Hi, I had the same problem after getting hallway newly plastered it was happening to both my upstairs and downstairs windows, had the window people out numerous times and they couldn't solve it, thankfully my windows were still under guarantee. It didn't happen every time it rained it only seemed to happen with driving rain and depending which way the wind was blowing would result in what side of the windows would be soaked.

In the end I paid to have the pointing redone around both windows thinking it must be that causing the problem but it wasn't, within half an hour of the chap leaving my house the plaster was soaked (it was a dry day when the pointing was done) so I phoned him up to ask if he had wet the sills and he said yes he had, he had squirted water over the window sills to clean them down when he was finishing off.

So I got googling and watched you tube videos on installing windows and learnt more about fitting windows than I ever cared to know. I then phoned the window people up to tell them what the problem was, they hadn't siliconed the edge of the frame to the sill and I was right and they ended up having to reinstall both windows all because the fitter hadn't bothered to silicone at the edges when he installed them . Both windows have been dry ever since. (for info my house has solid brick walls)

Don't know if this will be of any help to you but it might help someone else in the future.

Hope you get it sorted soon as I know how frustrated you will be feeling.

Sarah

Exactly, the fitters don't often bother putting frame sealant where it is really needed, I am sorry but that is a fact, many inexperienced fitters may not know or won't use much sealant where it really is needed others may totally skip the process as they seem to be always in a hurry to finish a job and be away from the site as quickly as possible to be ready for the next day's job scheduled, they have to get back to their work premises, reload new materials, drop rubbish, and be ready to start early for the next days job, and would do many short cuts to save time. They tend to stick to time rather than stick to quality.

I had a similar problem like yours but the pantograph type steel hinges with pivots and sliders on my opening sections had worn out excessively, such that when fully closed they left a small gap and did not shut tightly against the frame to keep drafts and rain out, and it only leaked when it was driving rain and wind in the direction of windows hitting it face on, and every 4 to 6 months my gutter gets blocked with small grain like particles (sand) loosening off roof tiles, and it carries rain water from one other house, and sags just above the windows, when blocked with sediment the water starts to pour out from this sagging point and a blade of water then skims past both upstairs and downstairs window, causing it to enter through the gaps and pour into the rooms wetting carpets and so on.

Last year I glued some bathtub plastic strips used for sealing bath tub against tiles, I used a section of this and glued it just above the top gap of the opening so that the blade of water falling from the gutter is deflected and falls away from the windows whenever the gutter gets blocked.

But sadly I only put this on the first floor window, now my tenant has told me that downstairs window is also leaking, the driving rain and high winds can defelect that blade of water on to the downstairs window and cause it to start leaking, I am scheduling that as my next job this week to place deflectors above the window opening downstairs rooms.

I will also be looking to see why that gutter sags above the windows of all the places, is the support bracket missing or is there another cause, I have to be careful so as not to lift it up too much or water could start running towards my neighbours house and cause problems there.

 

[Mr. Clueless]

DEVELOPMENT (but in actual fact, probably not)......

So i went back out there today, hosepipe in hand. I checked in the window opening as you said - it was bone dry.
I stood there for an age spraying water at the top & letting it run down - nothing.
Sprayed it all over the window opening too for a while - nothing (checked inside & still bone dry).
Kept going, kept going, more spraying - nothing.

Same on the right side - nothing.

As i kept going i got P'd off with how long it was taking, so on the window sill (outside) i pointed the hose in there & gushed water in to the corners.

*** This made it wet inside.

My wife then pointed out where it was becoming wet....

You'll have to excuse the dirty windows. I've not cleaned them up since the workmen was doing all the work.

That last picture is the worst corner & where you see the arrows pointing - that is the bigger gap than on the right hand side.

Spraying water in to the corners made water collect in this little channel thing (whatever it's called) & it'd then run along in to the corners - making them wet.



Initially i thought this was the problem (& i hope it is, so at least we have an answer), but now i'm thinking it's not.

Because spraying water right in to the corners of the sill like that is unnatural. I'm also thinking there's a drain point somewhere in there, so if i have actually sprayed UP a couple of drain points, then of course the water is going to come out somewhere.


So whether i have found the cause or not, i'm not actually sure, but it was development of some description.

 

[Mikefromlondon]

That sure is your problem 100%, so have it filled in with silicone, on doors you have such tray like to catch any condensate drips, and when there is quite a bit of water it is designed to run out through drilled holes, I have never seen these drip catching channels or trays or whatever you want to call them used under windows.

I have seen them used on aluminium double glazed doors, but never on windows,

so i would just fill the gap with white silicone and it should for once dry up and you don't need drip catching trays under your windows, if you see condensation running down your window, just wipe it every now and again with a dry towel.

Now you can see why only your corners are getting wet, because that water in tray has no where to escape other than through sides facing the walls, so walls are soaking it all up.

But remember to clean it thoroughly as silicone would not otherwise make a good seal.

I knew you would find out at last, and persistence pays, and as I said before always the case it is never where you think it is.

 

[Mr. Clueless]

I just don't get how it's getting in there though. It's ok sealing it on the inside but obviously there's a passage leading from the outside which I need to somehow find/seal. I siliconed in the corner as best I could.

Also like I said, me sticking the hose in the corner & putting a good flow in there is unnatural. I would be surprised for rain to replicate that, even heavy rain with wind.

Maybe I'm being too pessimistic but I can't help feel we haven't gotten to the bottom of this yet.


At any rate, why have such channeling? If it's to allow for condensation run off then surely this is a bad idea as we're finding out?
On a side note: we have one of those Karcher window vacs which we use each morning

Now I need to somehow clean inside that channel which will be a toughie since it's quite tight.

 

[Gazman16]

2. Who ever fitted the windows hasn't sealed the ends of the cills before placing the window on top allowing water to blow under the window and track to the ends of the cill and into the wall.
As your windows have been in for quite a while and the damp is a new issue this one is unlikely to be your cause.


Hopefully number 1 is your problem and easily fixed, 2 or 3 would mean having to cut back the plaster to work out what is going on.

Looks like is was number 2 but they also lacked sealing the back edge of the cill before placing the window on top.
The only way to truly fix it is to remove and refit the windows.

 

[Mr. Clueless]

Is there no way of getting around it without doing that?

Stuffing silicone in to the corners from the outside?
In to that little channel on the inside & then in the gap there before it meets the wall?

I don't ever remember this issue beforehand when the living room had attempted to have its damp issue fixed & then before that when we bought the house.




But just entertaining that idea for a second - are you talking just removing the glass, or the entire PVC frame? Which i would assume would then make a right pigs ear of all the plastering inside & need that re-doing again.



I know i should probably break these questions up over a few posts because some often get missed, but is it possible that this isn't the problem? As like i said, i stuck the hose nozzle in the corners & put a fair amount of water out into there - which wouldn't 'naturally' happen with just rain.