Water getting in around window. Fix?

[Mr. Clueless]

They're some good eggs. They're going to come out & sort it.

The boss was in touch with someone about it. Said that rainwater is getting in through the external skin somewhere (unknown). The 1.5-2.0" cavity had been filled with plasterboard & then the side wall boarded out & skimmed. Tanked in there too of course.

He said he's been told now plasterboard is the wrong material for inside there. It needs a physical DPC, foaming & then the side wall plastering.

As for the water getting in - he said he's no idea where. But this way should stop it being on the visible layer.

Hopefully it works. Suppose it's worth trying anything until we get to the windows out stage.

 

[Mr. Clueless]

Just doing a little investigating in to this & i read that your standard DPC roll isn't ideal for fitting around the windows as it's for horizontal usage really.
And that the DPC around the windows would/should be insulated. I don't know the proper term for this but at our place we call this damcor if i'm thinking of the right stuff - a rubbery DPC with a strip of foam like stuff down the centre.

Do you know if that stuff HAS to be used (the insulated over the 'normal' stuff)?

 

[Gazman16]

Dpc's and cavity closers are not something you need to worry to much about really.
Its just hows houses are build, Some have them and some don't. Adding them afterwards would be major building work.
Sounds like the damp guys are going to sort it for you now anyway so that is good.

 

[Mr. Clueless]

I was going to post back on this thread to ask something a while ago but I forgot. I'll have to do that another time because I want to focus on this for now...

We said that when the guys came out to re-do the leaky sections that once that approach had failed, we'd have to have the windows out as you mention & we'd have to leave those guys alone as they'd done all they can.

But now i'm unsure if we should get them out again or not ... what do you think?

Basically since it got done over a month ago, we've had nothing but decent weather really. This weekend just gone, with it being bank holiday that meant some pretty serious rainfall.

As suspected - the repair failed, but surprisingly the side that was the really bad side (see page 1) ... it's absolutely fine. I'm not saying it's totally fixed because i don't want to jinx it, but we had some pretty good rainfall & it's not even semi-damp.

There is a visible difference too. The DPC is actually sticking out beyond the plaster on the side that seems ok, but not on the side that has gone again. He has put some in there, but it's not like the side that's held up.

The side that WAS the bad side, but has held up ok...

The side that wasn't as bad which has failed....

Would you bother getting them out again to look at this failed side? The only reason i think this is because the side that was bad which has held up ... has held up.

 

[Mikefromlondon]

No I wouldn't, because they have done what they could, the problem is what they thought, so it is a tricky one, only your careful observation will reveal the problematic path for the water seepage. But worth a try, you have nothing to loose. If they remove the whole window, and refit it, you would be able to see possible pathways for water within the frame sections.

From the picture, it is obvious that water is getting into the window frame and making its way out of the corners, into the wall, not the other way around, any water getting inside would run along the hollow section of this frame to one side or the other and more towards the lowest side, if it is not perfectly level, or run towards both sides if it is perfectly level. It then emerges from the sides directly into your plaster.

The water isn't coming from the outer wall into inner wall, so it was waste of time placing that felt and replastering, the water is finding its way into the window from either external seals (the black rubber seals aLL AROUND THE GLASS PANELLING, and gaps around mitered corners OF THE RUBBER SEAL) drop by drop rain water builds up over a prolonged raining and BUILDS UP OVER A LONG TIME. That is exactly what you are experiencing. Now you need to do more home work and investigate more thoroughly, get a magnifying glass to see any small imperfection around the glass seal, frame seals and so on, open opening sections to see if you can see any signs of water in opened sections of the frame when it has been raining all day.

 

[Mr. Clueless]

I've read that a few times & bear with me as i'm going to risk sounding dim now...

So you're saying it's NOT coming in through any section of the exterior wall? It's coming in through some part of the external side of the window - frame, glass, seals, whatever, but NOT the wall?

I thought i'd asked about the black rubber seal earlier in the thread & was told this was unlikely/wont be it. I'll have to go back & check on that because i could be mistaken.


I think the best thing I can do now then is get a window fitter out to see what they reckon. My wife things that they'll just say i need a new window regardless because they want to get paid, but then she's doom+gloom Always thinks the worst, even though she may be right on this one. To be honest i'm getting a little tired of it all, so if it's a new window which costs then so be it so long as it fixes the problem.

My only concern is taking the window out & making the problem worse

 

[Mikefromlondon]

I was under the impression that you and others had figured out earlier where that water was getting from, that narrow gap along the external frame and sill, and we agreed you were going to fill it with white silicone sealant after cleaning it up first and doing a good job of filling, as filling it poorly or on a dirty surface the problem can still be there.

 

[Mr. Clueless]

Well i had that gap dried out & i'd filled it right in. As to whether it was a good job or not i don't know. It was filled up alright & to the edges too as best as i could do.

and the problem still occurred. This was before they inserted the strips of DPC too.

When i saw water coming up in this small gap it was after pointing the hosepipe nozzle direct in to the gap between frame & sill if i remember right, which is a little unnatural, so i don't know if that was 100% the problem or not really. I mean, water WAS getting in there, but it's not often you're going to have a hosepipe nozzle pointed direct in there really.

One of 2 things will have to happen anyway - either the builders come back out & try to tackle that one corner again, or i get in touch with a window fitter & hope it works out.

Perhaps i should just face facts & as has already been said - the window needs to come out

 

[Mikefromlondon]

Ok, the gap you filled with silicone was inside, so what you were trying to do was to seal the gap from where the water was jetting out when you had your hose directed at the window, this then means that the water manages to penetrate the window somewhere, and instead of gushing out straight it would now only have sides to escape from, and the sides are wall and plaster, hence why they will get wet when it rains all day or night drip by drip water builds up and then through sides it wets the walls. You need to look all nooks and crannies outside from where water can possibly get in, and that is where you need to seal well, if you are not too worried about looks, I would apply a thin layer of silicone even on that rubber seal all around the glass, use masking tape and apply a nice bead if silicon covering the rubber seal, let it semi dry and then gently peal of the masking tape to leave a neat clean lines of silicone bead, use black silicone, and then wait until next torrential rain or prolong raining day and see if water has managed to wet your walls, process of elimination, is this room / window on GF or on F/F, if it is on F/F look for possibility of water leaking from a roof and getting into the top part of the window rather than going into gutter, the roofing felt may be punctured such that water drips down on to the wall itself ( or wall plate ) and the walls may be cavity or some how it finds way down the bottom corner of the window, there could be other things running inside the wall such as cables, or pipes, you never know that may help water reach bottom part and show wetness at the bottom rather than at the top.

 

[Mr. Clueless]

Thanks.

I'll try the black silicone approach.

Will any old black silicone do (obviously so long as it says exterior) or should I be looking for something specific - specific properties, specific wording on the tube for example?


EDIT:

I'd have been surprised if it was the black rubber seal around the glass/frame. Not to say it can't be it, just i'd be surprised.
Based purely on I think every window in the house has gaps (from shrinkage?) in the corners on this seal. Some fair gaps, others not so bad.
And the living room is the only effected Windows - and this is the only room that's been tanked.

But of course I'm willing to give it a try before having to get someone out.

 

[Mikefromlondon]

Process of elimination, which means you have got to cover all angles since your problem has not gone away despite many attempts by you and the window fitters, so either remove the entire window and start fresh, which again does not 100% guarantee leak being cured, since the leak coukld be the window seal itself, or the seal between the opening and fixed panels.

 

[Mr. Clueless]

Out of interest how would starting afresh mean that the leak may still occur if it's the window seal that's the problem?

Surely they would in theory fit a new window properly which should stop it leaking as it does now?


Oh & I should ask since its the one my wife is bothered about - what about the dashing? How much of that would they likely have to chip off to fit a new window?

 

[Mikefromlondon]

I wouldn't even contemplate taking out dashing as you would never be able to match it again, and it would look bad, so window will need coming out from inside.
Most DG windows get fitted from inside. On a new window, there should be no leaks.

 

[theprinceofdarkness]

I Googled "UPVC window cills" and had a very quick brouse and found this :- http://www.wickes.co.uk/Wickes-uPVC-Window-Sill-White-1200mm/p/179751 . So it seems that the cill has a kick up on its rear edge, which in your case is where the water is appearing. If your cill was integral with the frame then the complete assemblely is faulty because that crack should not exist. If the cills were supplied separately then the back edge should have been covered with silicone before the window frame was sat on it. Sealing the top of the if difficult, sealing the ends are impossible unless the plaster is hacked off.
Go to the supplier and have a look at the construction of your window type.
Frank

 

[Mikefromlondon]

I agree, so why can't he put a small beading of white silicone on the outside joint between the window frame and the sill, I thought he had done this, so no water would enter from below the frame and through that gap and even though that kick up on its edge is there, water could still run side ways and emerge from the edges whewre the wall meets the frame and sill. Seems that OP has not sealed that gap or joint.

I think he sealed that gap between the frame and the kick up section with silicone from the inside but still the water is entering from the outside and reaching his walls.