What is "Smart" with electric goods?

[bernardgreen]

It also potentially allows individual properties to be disconnected for load-shedding. Rather than turning off whole neighbourhoods at once. Of course the powers that be are keeping very quiet about that feature because they don't want to discourage adoption.

Would they ever do that ?

I think the answer is that big relay inside the smart meter, why fit it if it is never going to be used ?

 

[Diver Fred]

It's just semantics. "Smart" has come to be a marketing term which can mean anything ... usually along the general lines of "more complicated/sophisticated than such things used to be".

I'm rather surprised that, for example, present-day cars are not described as "Smart", since they are considerably 'smarter' than they used to be, and considerably 'smarter' than many other things given that description

Kind Regards, John

I think you missed out 'Confusing'.

It also means something that appeals to the child and the inner child.

 

[Diver Fred]

It's just semantics. "Smart" has come to be a marketing term which can mean anything ... usually along the general lines of "more complicated/sophisticated than such things used to be".

I'm rather surprised that, for example, present-day cars are not described as "Smart", since they are considerably 'smarter' than they used to be, and considerably 'smarter' than many other things given that description

Kind Regards, John

I think you missed out 'Confusing'.

It also means something that appeals to the child and the inner child.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Would they ever do that ?

I think the answer is that big relay inside the smart meter, why fit it if it is never going to be used ?

I think what they are suggesting, is that it will never be used in normal circumstances. It does make it easy to cut off the none payers, without having to gain or force entry - but that would only be after numerous warnings.

 

[JohnD]

It's lucky that utility companies never make mistakes.

 

[ericmark]

I can see the point in splitting the supply into essential and non essential and having the ability to turn off non essential, however this was done years ago, not sure on dates, but two meters one for power and one for lighting, and power electric cost more, there were a few cases of power being taken from lighting circuits and court cases as a result, one of the problems was lack of earth on lighting supplies, which caused danger.

So although it seems good, clearly been tried and does not work, although one thing which it seems is being done, is to have EV charging which can be switched off remotely.

So in the future there is a possibility that we could set a time by which the EV needs to be charged, and the supply can be altered so keeping an even load on the generators by adjusting EV charging rates. But turning it off completely so one can't get to work in the morning is clearly not a good idea.

There has already been reports of an error resulting in wrong smart meter being turned off, it really does not matter if true of false, if people think it may be turned off in error they are not going to get one, saying they will not use the feature means nothing, if not being used why fit it. Yes if the Fire Brigade had assess to the feature it could be regarded as a safety feature, but seems they don't.

I have considered splitting house into essential and non essential so that essential supplies can be powered with a generator, but we are looking at the whole installation design with this, not simply a smart meter, my parents house house was built 1954 and re-wired around 2015 and new cables last longer than the old rubber, so looking at around 2090 before it needs it doing again. So it would take around 75 years if required with new builds and re-wires before most homes would have new style wiring.

I am told in France there is a very low rated fuse or MCB on the incomer and you pay according to maximum supply current, so we could have a warning bell to alert when exceeding a set limit, or similar, and the meter could be set to trip if limit exceeded, however the problem is not turning off the supply, it is reinstating the supply, and I will be frank I can't see the difference between resuming power after a general power cut, and a selected homes power cut, but it seems with the latter it requires some one to attend to switch power back on.

But the point is the adverts clearly are not telling the truth, with a smart meter clapping hands it seems does not really switch lights on/off, so there is a general mistrust of smart meters, and what ever they say they have or have not done, I don't want one as I don't trust them, by telling lies the government has shoot itself in the foot.

But the same is true of many so called smart devices exaggerate about what they can do, we no longer believe they are smart, it seems smart means connected with mobile phone in some way, and some times attempts to do more results in less.

The reversing beeper is a good example, a guy came into work showing a new model which said "Beware I am reversing" and the boss said how does it know whether to say it in Welsh or English, answer was it only says it in English, and boss said think beep beep beep is safer. And I went on holiday to Spain and this was reinforced when I nearly got hit by a wagon saying it in Spanish I assume. We have got use to beep beep beep meaning something is reversing and to replace it with speech or white noise is simply not going to work. I note with railway engines the whistle or horn must be sounded before it starts to move, maybe wagons should be the same?

Yes I do understand noise pollution, but also understand safety first.

 

[scousespark]

So what do you think smart means.

It's an acronym - 'Self-Monitoring, Analysis and Reporting Technology'

 

[ericmark]

I noted last few times car moved it seemed a little sluggish to start, so decided prudent to put the Smart charger on the battery to top it up, since I can, I used the energy monitor on the Smart charger, and the charger showed 12.4 volt when connected, which does point to discharged battery.

The smart charger has 5 rates, 3.8A, 3A, 0.8A, 0.1A and zero, each stage is selected by battery voltage, 12.8, 14.1 and 14.4 volt, so 3.8A completed at 12.8 volt, 3A at 14.1, 0.8A at 14.4 and it will alternate between 12.8 which it if drops to that point will up charge rate, and 14.4 which once reached drops charge rate, there is a pulse charge from 7.5 volt to 10.5 volt and under 7.3 volt it assumes it is a 6 volt battery.

So quite simple really but it is called "Smart" as it is suitable for valve regulated lead acid, also called absorbed glass mat. The computer display shows charge rate

It shows the last time I charged a battery with Average Daily Usage, it shows charge rate now 14 watt current usage, and with the recent usage you can see how long it took me to transfer from spare battery to car battery, and the start charge rate of 62 watt and also with the program other dot shows 56 watt rate when dropped to 3 amp and then the 0.8 amp rated (14 watt).

When the charge rate drops to 0.1 amp I will consider the battery fully recharged, and I can see when this happens from my bedroom on my laptop, there is also a LCD display on the charger, but when the car charger with my wife's car (Jaguar XE) works out how long it has been standing for and does things like disable the stop/start if battery not tip top, can the simple Lidi charger really be called "Smart" when compared with charging system built into the car?

The Lidi charger does have 'Self-Monitoring, Analysis and Reporting Technology' when combined with the Energenie MiHome energy monitor, but which device is the "Smart" device?

 

[SimonH2]

It enables a greater range of tarrifs

But, what they've done with "smart" meters is not required for that. All they need to collect is ONE register total per charging rate per charging period - so that might be (picking a number) say 20 or 30 totals in a month. It does not need 48 readings PER DAY. So there's a privacy issue there that TPTB seem "reluctant" to address - fundamental rule of privacy, if you don't collect it then it can't be misused.

For a while I saw a bunch of people praising octopus's agile tarriff

Yes, the poster child of what smart metering can do - except that it doesn't The smart meter plays zero part in conveying charging rates to users - that's done over the internet and is predicted the day before. So it's not real-time, and the smart meter is nothing more than a multi-register meter designed in the least privacy protecting manner possible.
AIUI, the spec for the smart meters doesn't actually include the level of detail needed to create such a system without a side channel (i.e. the internet) to pass out the future charge rates to allow decisions on usage - which is a monumental fail (one of many) really.

I do wonder if with the rise of solar and EVs, we will reach a time when power in the middle of the day is cheaper than the middle of the night

Less expensive might be a better way of putting it As things stand, it's not very common to be burning no fossil fuels and that's going to get worse as what's left of our nuclear stations finally get shut down. For some short periods, during low demand days, when there is lots of sun, and the right sort of wind is blowing - then we have an over supply. But most of the time, we're still reliant on gas.

EDIT: And as for our imports, until the whole of Europe also gets to zero fossil fuel (and note how Germany shut down it's nukes in favour of importing dirty coal generation from Poland), then they aren't green either.

Rather than turning off whole neighbourhoods at once. Of course the powers that be are keeping very quiet about that feature because they don't want to discourage adoption.

Exactly, they never mention that. 1974 here we come again - get the candles out

Would they ever do that ?

Well they say they won't, and they say they'll only cut off non-paying customers after all the same legal process ...

It does make it easy to cut off the none payers, without having to gain or force entry - but that would only be after numerous warnings.

It's lucky that utility companies never make mistakes.

Exactly. It's not like there aren't plenty of stories of suppliers "getting it massively wrong" and then finding themselves totally unable to resolve the matter even though it's quite unrealistic for (e.g.) a domestic customer to have run up a million quids worth of debt for their lecky.
The very fact that currently it needs physical access means "outside eyes" looking at the situation - whereas we are completely confident that no part of the process could ever get sidelined in the pursuit of corporate convenience aren't we

although one thing which it seems is being done, is to have EV charging which can be switched off remotely.

Which again doesn't need smart meters, and I strongly suspect that it actually doesn't involve them.

So in the future there is a possibility that we could set a time by which the EV needs to be charged, and the supply can be altered so keeping an even load on the generators by adjusting EV charging rates.

Yes, but smart meters as implemented don't have that capability

There has already been reports of an error resulting in wrong smart meter being turned off, it really does not matter if true of false, if people think it may be turned off in error they are not going to get one

TBH, I would be amazed if it's not heppened yet.

if not being used why fit it.

Don't forget that these meters can also be pre-pay meters - in which case they need to turn off the supply when you run out of credit.

I am told in France there is a very low rated fuse or MCB on the incomer and you pay according to maximum supply current

Correct, and also in Spain and Italy. At a previous job we had an office in italy - they used to have regular power cuts if they managed to mismanage demand (like running the air con).

But the point is the adverts clearly are not telling the truth

It's an advert, their purpose isn't to tell the truth

QUOTE="scousespark, post: 5068287, member: 27765"]It's an acronym - 'Self-Monitoring, Analysis and Reporting Technology'[/QUOTE]
Or it's Specific, Measurable, Achievable, Realistic, and Timed - at least if you're talking about performance management and setting objectives. But that's a different thread hijack.

 

[ericmark]

Don't forget that these meters can also be pre-pay meters

To be pre-pay there needs to be a method to pay, be it a credit card reader or coin slot, so not same meter.

 

[JohnD]

It's an acronym - 'Self-Monitoring, Analysis and Reporting Technology'

it's a Backronym.

 

[scousespark]

it's a Backronym.

I doubt anybody has ever missed an opportunity to be pedantic in here.

 

[JohnW2]

I think you missed out 'Confusing'.

I thought that was implicit in my "more complicated" -0 but, anyway, I agree with you.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

It's an acronym - 'Self-Monitoring, Analysis and Reporting Technology'

Good to see you. I hope all; is well with you and yours.

Are you sure about that? I'm not sure what the "Self" bit really means (it would seem to imply monitoring its own function/performance/whatever), and I wouldn't say that a 'smart' meter does any meaningful "Analysis" (only measuring, storing and communicating/reporting).

I realise that acronyms can (and often do) have multiple meanings, in different fields/context', but, for what it's worth, the only such meaning of 'SMART' of which I've been aware has been the one in relation to "SMART Goals" (in business or life in general), namely: "Specific, Measurable, Achievable, Realistic, and Timely" (and small variations on that theme).

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

To be pre-pay there needs to be a method to pay, be it a credit card reader or coin slot, so not same meter.

I may be wrong, but I thought that 'pre-paying' ('topping up') when one has a 'smart' meter is usually done on-line, with a phone 'app' or regularly/automatically by Direct Debit.

Kind Regards, John