What is the best Brexit deal we can realistically achieve?

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

the resident nutter firebrand is just out for a bit of fun. He's told us under some of his previous names that he says silly things for his own amusement, and doesn't even believe his own nonsense.

I think he believes some of it. He has convinced himself:

I am useful out in the real world and can make life better for others.

 

[Corgigrouch GTi]

Citation needed.

Get off your backside and go find it then.. why would it matter if you don't believe me?

 

[Corgigrouch GTi]

the resident nutter firebrand is just out for a bit of fun. He's told us under some of his previous names that he says silly things for his own amusement, and doesn't even believe his own nonsense.

Which other names would these be John?

 

[Corgigrouch GTi]

the resident nutter firebrand is just out for a bit of fun. He's told us under some of his previous names that he says silly things for his own amusement, and doesn't even believe his own nonsense.

What is the purpose of this section if not to have a little light fun..?

 

[motorbiking]

Do not be silly. That is the daftest comment I have seen for a while. The EU is obviously in the ascendancy with Macron (and the legislature) and Merkel.
They have specifically said that they do not wish to punish the UK.
They can see the chaos that we are causing ourselves. They do not need to intervene in our own self-made chaotic and confused situation.

I take it you have actually read the European Council (Art. 50) guidelines following the United Kingdom's notification under Article 50 TEU

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

I take it you have actually read the European Council (Art. 50) guidelines following the United Kingdom's notification under Article 50 TEU

So show me where this was said, intimated or intended:

its pretty clear that preserving the union is about ensuring the UK is worse off.

 

[Corgigrouch GTi]

So show me where this was said, intimated or intended:

Wannabehim, you are a typical Snowflake, you want others to do your work for you.... Find it yourself you lazy nobody

 

[motorbiking]

Its here https://ig.ft.com/eu-brexit-guidelines-annotated/?mhq5j=e2

click on the highlighted text for what they really mean. When you work in the area of contractual/commercial/legal negotiations (as I do) your primary objective is make your position seem reasonable and the position of the other side seem unreasonable. If you can do this, you can get the other side to concede on the basis that you are acting reasonably. Do not for one minute think the soft reconciliatory language is anything other than that. Their primary goal is to put us through the mincer to stop any other member states getting similarly stupid ideas about leaving. They want money, control, jobs and opportunity to flow one way. They want to be able to say - "but look what happened to the UK" and for it to be off putting, not to see our success as a viable alternative.

 

[SirGalahad]

The referendum was the right result to the wrong question. The UK and EU both need to be reformed. The UK economy has become a rent seeking economy with an oversized financial sector where returns to finance are higher than returns to production. This has led to increasing inequality with many people rightly feeling they have lost out on the benefits from globalisation and trade.

We need to as a country become less reliant on the financial service sector and become less dependent on the housing sector as a form of wealth creation. The current government and the previous grew GDP through two essential means - population growth and private debt growth. Actual productivity growth has been anaemic.

Now why is is that freedom of movement has become so contentious both politically, socially and economically? To answer this we need to accept one simple thing, we are more than just an economy we are a civic society. This means we do not make decisions purely on the basis of economic growth which governments too obsessively try to achieve.

It is beneficial to have freedom of movement of goods, services and capital but not people. In practice this should mean movement of people is restricted by Visa's which are allocated on the basis of Industry need - such as for the NHS and healthcare workers.

 

[SirGalahad]

They want money, control, jobs and opportunity to flow one way. They want to be able to say - "but look what happened to the UK" and for it to be off putting, not to see our success as a viable alternative.

What success are you referring to? We are still in the Single Market.

 

[motorbiking]

It is a future quote. i.e. fast forward 5 years and lets say France wants to leave the EU. They (EU) will want to be able to point at the UK as an example of what can happen when you leave. They do not want it to be a success story.

 

[SirGalahad]

It is a future quote. i.e. fast forward 5 years and lets say France wants to leave the EU. They (EU) will want to be able to point at the UK as an example of what can happen when you leave. They do not want it to be a success story.

Which is why Cameron should not have done the referendum. He should have fought the case within the EU as a discussion between friends but now it seems we will be having the discussion as between divorcees - which can become emotional - ergo the point that the EU will like to punish the UK.

 

[motorbiking]

maybe, but Junker could have given cameron a better bone to present the benefits of EU membership and therefore acquired a resounding endorsement of the EU from the UK.

 

[wobs]

Get off your backside and go find it then.. why would it matter if you don't believe me?

So you don't even believe what you write? All you can do is abuse.

Manufacturing industry do not want to leave the EU. Financial Services industry do not want to leave the EU (well, a part of it will just move of course). Any number of other industries say the same.

See also: academia, RnD, NHS..... to name a few.

Here is an eg: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40251190

The government should rethink its Brexit strategy, following last week's election, according to the engineering industry organisation, the EEF.

It said without a more pro-business stance, the resulting political instability may force more firms to alter their plans "away from the UK".

The EEF is the latest business organisation to call for a rethink of the government's Brexit plans.

Or you could look up a whole range of studies which pretty much come to the same conclusion: We will be worse off.

 

[motorbiking]

The more important question is : worse off than we were going to be, or worse off than we are now. I'd agree short term - worse of than we are now, but being a non euro zone country we were always heading in a direction that was not in our interests. United States of Europe is where we were heading and being the biggest non-euro country.. well we stuck out like a sore thumb.