What is the definition of fixed wiring or an appliance

[Wontdothatagain]

Following on from the pond thread, it has always been my understanding that the fixed wiring ends at the socket, switch, SFS, light drop ect.

Are you saying that if i had a cooker hood connected to a SFS, the cooker hood would become part of the fixed wiring?

 

[JohnW2]

Following on from the pond thread, it has always been my understanding that the fixed wiring ends at the socket, switch, SFS, light drop ect. Are you saying that if i had a cooker hood connected to a SFS, the cooker hood would become part of the fixed wiring?

This is another of those 'debatable interpretations', and I'll be interested in hearing what others say. In that previous thread, I wrote:

However, I wonder why you are thinking that it is 'not part of the fixed wiring'. Particularly if it is hard-wired (via an FCU or 'power controller' such as you have mentioned), I think there would probably be a reasonable argument that it was 'fixed wiring' - although, as I've said, that no longer really matters.

BS7671 does not define 'fixed wiring'. It does, however, define 'fixed equipment, as "Equipment designed to be fastened to a support or otherwise secured in a fixed location". Your cooker hood would certainly qualify as that. In attempting to clarify the scope of notifiability, Approved Document P (not, in itself, law) also indicates that something may be 'fixed wiring' (albeit it doesn't define what that means), subject to notification if required by the 'new rules', "even if the final connection is by a standard 13A plug and socket". Given all that, it would certainly be fairly easy to argue that the wiring to your cooker hood was 'fixed wiring'.

However, as I said before, this is all largely moot. We are now in the situation that work only requires notification if it involves a 'new circuit' (whatever that means!), replacement of a CU or work in the zones of a bathroom, even if the wiring is 'fixed'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Wontdothatagain]

In a commercial property, the same cooker hood would come under the "In service inspection and testing of electrical equipment" not an EICR so in my eyes it is not part of the electrical installation but an appliance.

 

[crystal ball]

There was a debate on this forum regarding 4 way extension leads shoved into a bit of mini trunking, some say this becomes part of the fixed wiring

 

[JohnW2]

In a commercial property, the same cooker hood would come under the "In service inspection and testing of electrical equipment" not an EICR so in my eyes it is not part of the electrical installation but an appliance.

I have to take your word for that. However, as I've said, 'notifiability' under the Building Regs would not be required, even if it were regarded as fixed wiring.

I have no experience of commercial installations. Installations in purely commerciual premises obviously don't come within the scope of Part P, so I'm not even sure whether the notification requirements specified in !2(6) of the Building Regs even apply.

Where do you think the line is drawn between 'fixed wiring to fixed equipment' and 'non-fixed wiring' to items which come under the "Inservice I&T..." category? What about boilers or other heating/AC equipment, fixed hard-wired machine tools, etc. etc.?

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

There was a debate on this forum regarding 4 way extension leads shoved into a bit of mini trunking, some say this becomes part of the fixed wiring

Indeed - and even more saying that if the 4-way sockets were 'attached' to a wall.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Are you saying that if i had a cooker hood connected to a SFS, the cooker hood would become part of the fixed wiring?

I've just noticed the precise wording of your question. I'm not so sure that the hood, itself, would necessarily be regarded as 'part of the fixed wiring', but the wiring to it could well be.

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

Is fixed just - not portable?

What's SFS?

 

[securespark]

Yeah, Fixed wiring ends at the accessory & not the appliance. But I agree with John here: if the appliance wiring was fixed in the same manner as fixed wiring (ie clipped, trunked, etc), rather than loose like a regular portable appliance flex, then it would be classed as fixed wiring.

 

[Taylortwocities]

BS7671 does not define 'fixed wiring'. It does, however, define 'fixed equipment, as "Equipment designed to be fastened to a support or otherwise secured in a fixed location". Your cooker hood would certainly qualify as that.

Interesting definition. In its pure sense, the cooker hood is fixed equipment (its screwed to the wall/cabinets). The oven itself is neither fixed nor secured and so is not fixed equipment as defined in BS7671.

Do i feel a separate thread coming on?

 

[crystal ball]

Yeah, Fixed wiring ends at the accessory & not the appliance. But I agree with John here: if the appliance wiring was fixed in the same manner as fixed wiring (ie clipped, trunked, etc), rather than loose like a regular portable appliance flex, then it would be classed as fixed wiring.

So if a bit of flex was secured by one clip to hold it clear of the floor it becomes part of the fixed wiring?

 

[JohnW2]

Yeah, Fixed wiring ends at the accessory & not the appliance.

FWIW, as I said, Approved Doc P does not agree with that, It says that wiring may be 'fixed' even if it is connected via 'a standard 13A plug and socket'.

But I agree with John here: if the appliance wiring was fixed in the same manner as fixed wiring (ie clipped, trunked, etc), rather than loose like a regular portable appliance flex, then it would be classed as fixed wiring.

That is not my view - I was merely reporting what some people say/think. In my house, there are plenty of examples of flexible power cables to items of equipment being 'clipped' or enclosed in something for tidiness etc., but I wouldn't dream of regarding that as 'fixed wiring'!

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Interesting definition. In its pure sense, the cooker hood is fixed equipment (its screwed to the wall/cabinets). The oven itself is neither fixed nor secured and so is not fixed equipment as defined in BS7671.

Agreed. Daft, isn't it? What about my (large, floor-standing) boiler. It's not actually 'fixed' to anything in a formal sense, although the pipework certainly restrains it - but, even without the pipework, I could not move it on my own - so is that non-fixed (aka 'portable')?!

Do i feel a separate thread coming on?

I reckon it comes within the scope of the title of this one!

Kind Regards, John

 

[crystal ball]

A further thought on the clipped flex scenario, if someone clips a flex does it need a MWC as it becomes fixed wiring

 

[JohnW2]

A further thought on the clipped flex scenario, if someone clips a flex does it need a MWC as it becomes fixed wiring

That's for others to decide. As I've said, I wouldn't personally dream of considering the flex of a 'portable item' (common sense definition) as being 'fixed wiring', no matter how immovable or hidden/'protected' I'd made it!

There are, of course, situations in which 'clipped flex' will be reasonably regardable as 'fixed wiring' but, IMO, that will never be primarily because it is clipped.

Kind Regards, John