What is the definition of fixed wiring or an appliance

[crystal ball]

So if a bit of flex was secured by one clip to hold it clear of the floor it becomes part of the fixed wiring?

Yes.

So that would require a MWC

 

[ban-all-sheds]

A further thought on the clipped flex scenario, if someone clips a flex does it need a MWC as it becomes fixed wiring

Do you mean does adding a clip require a MWC, or installing flex which you then clip at installation time?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

There are, of course, situations in which 'clipped flex' will be reasonably regardable as 'fixed wiring' but, IMO, that will never be primarily because it is clipped.

Once you clip it it becomes fixed.

How hard is that?

Why do so many people struggle with the meanings of everyday words?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

A further thought on the clipped flex scenario, if someone clips a flex does it need a MWC as it becomes fixed wiring

That's for others to decide. As I've said, I wouldn't personally dream of considering the flex of a 'portable item' (common sense definition) as being 'fixed wiring', no matter how immovable or hidden/'protected' I'd made it!

There are, of course, situations in which 'clipped flex' will be reasonably regardable as 'fixed wiring' but, IMO, that will never be primarily because it is clipped.

Kind Regards, John

I agree wholeheartedly with the above

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

When it is 'fixed'.

So if it is fixed by one solitary clip is it fixed?

Yes.

 

[crystal ball]

Either really, I do a lot of work in schools and they use 4 way extensions in most classrooms , quite often I see flex tied to bracket or similar with a shoelace, does that qualify as fixed

 

[JohnW2]

So if a bit of flex was secured by one clip to hold it clear of the floor it becomes part of the fixed wiring?

Yes.

I've recently been somewhat criticised for speaking of Mr Jobsworth - but, with the best will in the world....

I'm not even sure I understand the point of all this. Surely no-one is suggesting that, at least under pre-April rules, one might have had to complet an MWC and notify LABC when one was going to plug a piece of equipment into a 13A socket, because it's flex was attached to the wall by one clip to keep it off the floor ... or are there people who would have suggested that?!

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

Either really, I do a lot of work in schools and they use 4 way extensions in most classrooms , quite often I see flex tied to bracket or similar with a shoelace, does that qualify as fixed

No, that's 'tied'.

Are your shoes 'fixed'?

 

[JohnW2]

Once you clip it it becomes fixed. How hard is that? Why do so many people struggle with the meanings of everyday words?

Maybe because they realise that everyday words are often used, even if incorrectly, to have meanings different from their literal/dictionary ones.

As I've said, what about the corollary of what you're saying? Do you seriously believe that you could successfully argue that the wiring in one of the final circuits in your house was not 'fixed wiring of the installation' just because (probably in violation of theregs) it was not 'fixed' anywhere?

This is getting plain daft

Kind Regards, John

 

[crystal ball]

Either really, I do a lot of work in schools and they use 4 way extensions in most classrooms , quite often I see flex tied to bracket or similar with a shoelace, does that qualify as fixed

No, that's 'tied'.

Are your shoes 'fixed'?

I wear sandals (no socks)

Have you ever seen cables tied to tray with these


http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CT100BL.html

 

[JohnW2]

Either really, I do a lot of work in schools and they use 4 way extensions in most classrooms , quite often I see flex tied to bracket or similar with a shoelace, does that qualify as fixed

No, that's 'tied'.

So cable(s) attached to, say, a wall by means of cable-ties and cable-tie bases are 'tied', but not 'fixed'?

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

I wear sandals (no socks)

Ah. They are probably clipped direct.

Have you ever seen cables tied to tray with these
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CT100BL.html[/QUOTE]
I suspect that would be fixed wiring regardless.

 

[ericmark]

So if a bit of flex was secured by one clip to hold it clear of the floor it becomes part of the fixed wiring?

Yes.

I've recently been somewhat criticised for speaking of Mr Jobsworth - but, with the best will in the world....

I'm not even sure I understand the point of all this. Surely no-one is suggesting that, at least under pre-April rules, one might have had to complet an MWC and notify LABC when one was going to plug a piece of equipment into a 13A socket, because it's flex was attached to the wall by one clip to keep it off the floor ... or are there people who would have suggested that?!

Kind Regards, John

Sorry but yes I did. Reading the Welsh Part P in a kitchen if I was to use an extension lead then no need to notify but clip up the cable safely out of the way and yes to letter it would need notifying although I think you would be daft to do so.

I think reading what has been said though one has to also separate installation from appliance. Bolting an appliance to the wall does not need LABC notification so cooker hood would not require notifying.

The other point is of course inspection and testing of in-service electrical equipment would include the cooker hood but would not include the extension lead where the sockets are slipped onto a couple of screws and the wires are clipped up. The latter would come under electrical installation condition report.

In real terms I would still "PAT" test the extension lead but the real problem arises with the cooker hood. Any "PAT" testing should include the cooker hood as it is part of inspection and testing of in-service electrical equipment. However it is not a question of just plugging into a machine.

I worked on a piece of portable appliance while working in Heath Row. It arrived towed by multi tractor units and was assembled onto concrete standings but at the end of the job it was also removed with multi tractor units to next job. This batching plant able to batch 4 cubic meters of concrete per batch was clearly portable. We are talking about somewhere near to 150 ton of portable equipment and it was "PAT" tested over 4 weeks with three electricians working 8 hours every Sunday. Once completed ready to start again.

Clearly to have quoted £1.50 per item would not have covered that. But this is the point every bit of electrical stuff either comes under inspection and testing of in-service electrical equipment or electrical installation condition report.

 

[JohnW2]

Sorry but yes I did. Reading the Welsh Part P in a kitchen if I was to use an extension lead then no need to notify but clip up the cable safely out of the way and yes to letter it would need notifying although I think you would be daft to do so.

.. but does that not beg the question posed by the title of this discussion? What you say would only be correct (albeit that most of us, with the possible exception of BAS, would regard it as totally daft) IF you believed that the 'clipping' of the flex of something otherwise 'portable' caused it to become 'fixed wiring of the installation'. Is that what you believe?

In any event, as I keep saying, it has all become a bit irrelevant in England - since whether or not something is 'fixed wiring' no longer really has any great relevance to notifiability.

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

So cable(s) attached to, say, a wall by means of cable-ties and cable-tie bases are 'tied', but not 'fixed'?

I think that would be regarded as fixed but somewhat different than an extension lead 'tied' out of the way with shoelaces.

I was attempting humour as I don't think there seems to be a definitive description of 'fixed wiring' that would satisfy all situations.
I would say just looking at it would tell you one way or another.