What is the definition of fixed wiring or an appliance

[JohnW2]

So cable(s) attached to, say, a wall by means of cable-ties and cable-tie bases are 'tied', but not 'fixed'?

I think that would be regarded as fixed but somewhat different than an extension lead 'tied' out of the way with shoelaces. I was attempting humour as I don't think there seems to be a definitive description of 'fixed wiring' that would satisfy all situations.

I have to confess that I didn't 'realise' until now that it was your comment to which I was responding - I thought I was replying to BAS, who seems to take matter of the definition of 'fixed' anything but humourously

I would say just looking at it would tell you one way or another.

As I've said and/or implied, I personally seriously doubt whether the spirit/intent of all this has got anything much to do with whether the cables are (in a literal sense) 'fixed' or not. As I've said, if I managed to wire a whole final circuit (say lighting or sockets) without any 'fixing' of any of the cable, I don't think that anyone in their right mind would suggest that the circuit was not 'fixed wiring of the electrical installation'. I suggested before that maybe 'permanent' would have been a better word for them to use (to capture their intent) than 'fixed' - what do you think?

Kind Regards, John.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Perhaps permanent would be better but then - how long ...?

 

[crystal ball]

Perhaps all wiring is temporary, doubt it will still be there in the year 2525

 

[JohnW2]

Perhaps permanent would be better but then - how long ...?

Sure, there are always going to be the grey areas - but at least the regs do already recognise (and even define) a 'temporary electrical installation'! My point, as I'm sure you realise, is that it would have been better to keep away from wording which implied that the fixing/non-fixing of cables was a crucial part of the issue - since that is something which most of us seem to think is rather daft.

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

Fixed also means 'repaired' but I won't go there.

 

[JohnW2]

Perhaps all wiring is temporary, doubt it will still be there in the year 2525

Indeed, as I've just written, there are always going to be problems with the words chosen. Conversely, you could probably find some extension leads (without any clipped cable) that had been plugged into the same socket, and had been supplying the same loads, for the past decade or three!

I actually suspect that (if people would but admit it!), perhaps unusually, a situation in which most of us would have pretty similar opinions as to what, in common sense terms, should and should not be regarded as 'parts of the fixed electrical installation' - even though it is clear that there would always be some 'dissenters'!

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Fixed also means 'repaired' but I won't go there.

It also has a meaning along the lines of 'stabilisation' in fields such as photgraphy, image processing/printing and the preparation of biological tissues for examination, but I won't go there, either

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

The question:-

What is the definition of fixed wiring or an appliance

To me there seems to be two more definitions. So we have:-
1) Fixed Wiring
2) Temporary Wiring (Extension leads, lead sets and portable appliance leads.)
3) Portable Appliance.
4) Fixed Appliance.

First fixed I seem to remember in college being told if one uses screws to attach a picture to the wall in a house you can remove it when you leave but if you use nails then it is not designed to be removed so becomes property of the landlord.
So two screws onto which you push 4 way trailing socket onto and not fixed. But use some non reusable cable clips and it is fixed. Personally I would not really worry about cable clips but where it is not plugged in I would regard it as fixed.

Fixed appliance is again where it is attached although in this case it would also include built in ovens, hobs, and extractor fans even though they are fixed with screws so they can be removed for replacement. i.e. anything you would leave behind when selling a house.

With an appliance we have a series of definitions from:-
S Stationary equipment
IT Information technology equipment
M Movable equipment
P Portable equipment
H Hand-held equipment
Only Stationary equipment would be considered as fixed even if connected with a FCU.

So where a hair drier is wired into a FCU the cable is fixed but the hair drier is hand held.

Where I see the problem is with items like door bell transformers, Bathroom transformers, or light fittings where they are both a piece of electrical equipment and part of the installation.

When is a florescent fitting checked? Is it part of the Electrical installation condition report or part of the In-service Inspection and testing of Electrical Equipment or should it come under both? Clearly as we need to check if there is an earth to see if suitable must come under EICR but also it is without question also in-service electrical equipment.

As to Permanent:-
1802 - The Carmarthenshire Tramroad, later the Llanelly and Mynydd Mawr Railway, located in south west Wales, was established by the Act of Parliament.
1963, March 27 - Publication of The Reshaping of Britain's Railways (the Beeching Report). Generally known as the "Beeching axe", it led to the mass closure of 25% of route miles and 50% of stations during the decade following.
So the permanent way lasted 161 years so that should be a good indication as to permanent.

 

[crystal ball]

There were lights in the Great Pyramid when I visited, pretty sure they were original, saw a business card tucked behind a DB, Ptolemy & Son, no job too small

 

[securespark]

Let's further muddy the water: Stationary Equipment exceeds 18kg in weight and may not be fixed (eg washing machine).

 

[securespark]

There are, of course, situations in which 'clipped flex' will be reasonably regardable as 'fixed wiring' but, IMO, that will never be primarily because it is clipped.

Once you clip it it becomes fixed.

How hard is that?

Why do so many people struggle with the meanings of everyday words?

So, in my previous example of "fixed wiring" not being restrained in any way, is that not in fact fixed, then?

Just so that you're clear, I'm talking about a cable run in a void between two points that is not fixed or restrained or placed in trunking at all.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

So it's not fixed at the ends, where the conductors enter terminals?

 

[JohnW2]

So it's not fixed at the ends, where the conductors enter terminals?

Hmmmm

However, as I've just said in another thread, I think all this discussion about whether or not things are 'fixed wiring' may well be a red herring. Having thought about it, AFAICS the question regarding applicability of BS7671 relates primarily to whether or not the cable in question forms part of 'an electrical installation' - and I'm no longer totally sure of how the word 'fixed' got into the discussion. I'm sure someone will remind me!

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Fixed is of significance to the Building Regulations.

 

[JohnW2]

Fixed is of significance to the Building Regulations.

It is? I see no mention of it in Part P. 1(a) of the old Schedule (regarding notifiability) did refer to "fixed cabling", but the new incarnation of that (Section 12.6A) does not. What am I missing?

Kind Regards, John.