Worried about my plumbers competence
- Thread starter achrn
- Start date
Sponsored Links
We come across this sort of thing a lot. Too many builders do not want to pay the rates required by qualified and experience GAs Safe Registered heating installers.
They often use the unqualified - you can bet the "plumber" was being paid peanuts.
If the home owner took responsibility for the plumbing and heating part of these types of renovation jobs - yes it would cost more - but legit people would be doing the job the customer wanted.
From what I read in this case the customer's contract is with the builder - who probably will not want to pay another engineer to put it right.
From our experience as a plumbing/heating company - we just about roll our eyes when a builder contacts us to work for them subcontracting on a house renovation. We know it will be a waste of time giving them a quote because they will not employ us - we will be too expensive - and the corner cutting we are asked to do is not acceptable.
.... I could go on and on....
Sponsored Links
So if you go and buy a new car, do you think it reasonable for the garage to expect you to take responsibility for fitting the wiring loom? At a restaurant, do you think you should appoint the chef and the waiter individually?
In point of fact, this is a substantial (I'm moved out for seven months) reconstruction of a house that I have been planning and saving for for about 20 years (since purchasing the property). The reason I appointed a builder and did not 'take responsibility' for the plumbing and heating is because I don't have the time or technical expertise to manage a construction project of this size. I employed a professional to do that for me.
Are you suggesting I should 'take responsibility' also for appointing the excavator driver who dug the excavations? For appointing the brickie? The chippie? The roofer? Should I be 'taking responsibility' for the electrician? Should I interview and appoint the plasterer? The decorator?
Or is it sensible and reasonable of me to appoint a builder to carry out the work and expect the builder to appoint and manage competent, qualified sub-contractors?
While cost is clearly not completely irrelevant, actually the builder I appointed was the second most expensive of the quotes I received. I chose primarily on the basis of perceived quality. I do not believe that anything I have done justifies the shoddiness of the work I have received.
The last big plumbing & heating house renovation I was involved in I worked directly for the homeowner not the builder. To be fair we worked really well with the builder and he was glad he wasn't involved in the 'wet' side.
My principal concern was that if I appointed (say) the plasterer and the electrician and the plumber, then I am stuck with also negotiating an agreed programme of works and managing handovers and so on. The electrician won't want to be hooking stuff up and testing it at the same time that the plasterer is throwing wet gloop around the place, etc. etc.
If I appoint a builder to manage it, then if the electrician over-runs and is still putting conduit on the walls the day the plaster turns up to slather them in gloop then that's his problem to resolve.
I've seen building works where the homeowner appointed each individual trade and bought their own materials and fittings, and it wasn't pretty. I don't want to be a building project manager / planner for a year.
If I appoint a builder to manage it, then if the electrician over-runs and is still putting conduit on the walls the day the plaster turns up to slather them in gloop then that's his problem to resolve.
I've seen building works where the homeowner appointed each individual trade and bought their own materials and fittings, and it wasn't pretty. I don't want to be a building project manager / planner for a year.
I understand what you are saying.
BUT plumbing and heating are quite specialist work. All the other building trades are largely labour based without any highly technical aspects.
If you leave the builder to appoint a heating installer then he will call the cheapest ( not the best ) and he will charge YOU at the rate of the best pocketing the difference as his extra profit!
No good heating engineer is going to work for a builder as we are all telling you.
Your builder's plumber is evidently so short of work that he has to travel away for the week from his home!
I have never had any good experiences working for builders and rarely ever give a price because I know that I am wasting my time!
Tony
BUT plumbing and heating are quite specialist work. All the other building trades are largely labour based without any highly technical aspects.
If you leave the builder to appoint a heating installer then he will call the cheapest ( not the best ) and he will charge YOU at the rate of the best pocketing the difference as his extra profit!
No good heating engineer is going to work for a builder as we are all telling you.
Your builder's plumber is evidently so short of work that he has to travel away for the week from his home!
I have never had any good experiences working for builders and rarely ever give a price because I know that I am wasting my time!
Tony
achrn.
You are correct in your thinking and it is the ideal way for all concerned, normally however there would be an architect or similar liaising with the building with your instructions.
As far as the builder is concerned you need to get round a table and record properly what you expect, and how they intend to proceed.
If your happy with the builder and other trades make them aware of it, but get everything in writing and recorded between you.
You are correct in your thinking and it is the ideal way for all concerned, normally however there would be an architect or similar liaising with the building with your instructions.
As far as the builder is concerned you need to get round a table and record properly what you expect, and how they intend to proceed.
If your happy with the builder and other trades make them aware of it, but get everything in writing and recorded between you.
I would add that if the builder's plumber was indeed gas registered then he would be pleased to show you his card and give you his registration number ( which none of us can ever forget ) to demonstrate his qualifications for the job.
Apart from his abilities, his attitude seems seriously flawed!
Tony
Apart from his abilities, his attitude seems seriously flawed!
Tony
I've told the builder I'm happy with his work and that of his other subbies.
The builder is getting someone else to review the installation and tell him if I'm talking *******s (which, form his point of view, I suppose I may be - though even if he knows nothing whatsoever about plumbing, the 'plumber' saying "this valve can never spray water" 30 seconds before it sprayed water all over the place ought to give him some clues about the plumber's competence).
After that, we will have a sit down, and we'll work out whether he will appoint someone who's appointment I approve, or whether I appoint someone direct and take the cost out of the builder's fee.
My guess is that you lot think the latter course is preferred? My concern with that is if I find someone else who is also a clueless illiterate numpty then it's clearly my problem to resolve, plus all the needing to arrange interfaces between builder and plumber.
The builder is getting someone else to review the installation and tell him if I'm talking *******s (which, form his point of view, I suppose I may be - though even if he knows nothing whatsoever about plumbing, the 'plumber' saying "this valve can never spray water" 30 seconds before it sprayed water all over the place ought to give him some clues about the plumber's competence).
After that, we will have a sit down, and we'll work out whether he will appoint someone who's appointment I approve, or whether I appoint someone direct and take the cost out of the builder's fee.
My guess is that you lot think the latter course is preferred? My concern with that is if I find someone else who is also a clueless illiterate numpty then it's clearly my problem to resolve, plus all the needing to arrange interfaces between builder and plumber.
It will much better if the builder supplies the plumber subject to approval.
Show him Dans pic as an example of what you are expecting, you have plenty of room so no excuses.
For what it's worth I doubt the first chancer is registered, and probably not even a plumber. Was he English and able to read the Installation manuals.
Show him Dans pic as an example of what you are expecting, you have plenty of room so no excuses.
For what it's worth I doubt the first chancer is registered, and probably not even a plumber. Was he English and able to read the Installation manuals.
He was caucasian and mumbled in English. I never saw any evidence of him reading.
No I didn't suggest that...
I said IF not should!
I am not saying home owners SHOULD appoint individual tradesmen in a big job.
BUT
I am saying that if they did they would probably choice more wisely and carefully than the builder.
And some builders are very good and careful who they subcontract to and do get problems rectified. I am just saying stories like this are all too common.
FFS listen to you all !!!!! how would you like it if every installation that you carried out was open to investigation on here ? OK I dont think the bloke has covered himself with glory, but I guarentee that if you put all your installations on here that someone would be able to pick fault with something
DIYnot Local
Staff member
If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.
Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.
Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local
Sponsored Links
