5amp round 2pin sockets

[ban-all-sheds]

ban-all-sheds, would you mind telling us what 412.1.3 and 553.1 say? I (and I assume many others) don't own a copy of the regulations.

If nobody with access to a soft copy pastes them in I'll do a precis tomorrow...

 

[ccam108]

ban-all-sheds, would you mind telling us what 412.1.3 and 553.1 say? I (and I assume many others) don't own a copy of the regulations.

If nobody with access to a soft copy pastes them in I'll do a precis tomorrow...

Thanks. I suppose that means I should head to bed. I am on church car park snow clearing duties at 9am tomorrow. D'oh!

Colin C

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Hope you've got PLI to cover that...

 

[ccam108]

Hope you've got PLI to cover that...

Don't be ridiculous.

Colin C

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I'm not.

I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that if you clear away the snow you become liable for the condition of the surface, so it it then becomes icy and someone slips it's your fault.

Do nothing and it's just a natural condition/AOG sort of thing.

But don't blame me - I didn't write the law.

 

[ccam108]

I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that if you clear away the snow you become liable for the condition of the surface, so it it then becomes icy and someone slips it's your fault.

Seems that no-one can do anyone else a favour these days doesn't it?

Although, if the car park is cleared and salted and it freezes or snows again, then surely it is a natural condition and there is nothing we can do about it?

The guy who organises the clearing is always shouting "HEALTH AND SAFETY" at me so I'm sure he knows what he is doing.

Colin C

 

[holmslaw]

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[wundaboy]

Other than the law requiring reasonable provision for safety, and I would suggest that a cpc-less circuit installed in contravention not just of the current version of the wiring regs but also old versions stretching back for decades would not qualify as reasonable.

Nothing to stop you running an earth to the point and leaving it disconnected behind the socket, in case it's wanted at some future date. If you were using T&E you'd have that anyway.

The main problem I can see in terms of 'reasonable provision for safety' is not so much the lack of earth but that (and I'm making an assumption here based on the fact the OP said they were 'old bakelite') they most probably lack safety shutters. I don't recall ever seeing any 2 pin BS546 that were shuttered.

 

[Paul_C]

Nothing to stop you running an earth to the point and leaving it disconnected behind the socket, in case it's wanted at some future date. If you were using T&E you'd have that anyway.

Yes - I guess you could do that, and join it in the box.

There's still 412.1.3 and 553.1 to overcome though...

The exception of 412.1.3 might not apply, but does that matter?

412.2.3.2 Except where Regulation 412.1.3 applies, a circuit supplying one or more items of Class II equipment shall have a circuit protective conductor run to and terminated at each point in wiring and at each accessory.

Run an earth and terminate at a box behind the socket, and I would say that requirement has been satisfied. It wouldn't really be any different than running a cable to a double-insulated strip light with integral shaver outlet; you have an earth at the device, but there's nothing to connect it to, so you just terminate it at a block for possible future use.

553.1 might be more of a problem, but the point is that there is absolutely no requirement to follow every detail of these regulations anyway. As you know, BS7671 is not law.

 

[Paul_C]

The main problem I can see in terms of 'reasonable provision for safety' is not so much the lack of earth but that (and I'm making an assumption here based on the fact the OP said they were 'old bakelite') they most probably lack safety shutters. I don't recall ever seeing any 2 pin BS546 that were shuttered.

If a standard BC lampholder is still considered to meet the requirement of "reasonable provision for safety," then I can't see how non-shuttered sockets would fall foul of it.

 

[holmslaw]

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[holmslaw]

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[wundaboy]

The main problem I can see in terms of 'reasonable provision for safety' is not so much the lack of earth but that (and I'm making an assumption here based on the fact the OP said they were 'old bakelite') they most probably lack safety shutters. I don't recall ever seeing any 2 pin BS546 that were shuttered.

If a standard BC lampholder is still considered to meet the requirement of "reasonable provision for safety," then I can't see how non-shuttered sockets would fall foul of it.

But you do see my point - unshuttered sockets have been a bete noir of BS7671 for years.

I do agree with you though - lampholders are a curious blind spot in the regs, being really quite dangerous from one point of view (especially with table lamps etc) and from the other, merely an accepted convention which we all work around.

 

[Paul_C]

Neither can I, in a world of 8 feet tall two year olds.

Table lamps?

When you're in court accused of manslaughter because a toddler is dead after sticking a paper clip into an unshuttered non compliant socket, try it on the judge.

How would that be any different from sticking a paperclip in the end of any one of a number of IEC 320 connectors on a detachable appliance cord?

But you do see my point - unshuttered sockets have been a bete noir of BS7671 for years.

Yes, I see the point, but there's a difference between BS7671/IEE Regs. and "reasonable provision." Non-shuttered sockets are still used throughout most of the world and considered quite safe.

With regard to that legal "reasonable provision for safety" requirement of Building Regs. Part P, it should also be noted that the guidance notes - which while not law are issued officially - state that one way to show compliance with Part P would be to install to the recognized standards of another EU/EEA member country.

So the official position is that non-shuttered sockets (Shucko, French, Italian etc.) would not violate the "reasonable provision" requirement.

 

[RF Lighting]

You'd have to wire your house to the regulations applicable in those contries though wouldn't you?

You can't wire most of your house to BS7671, and then wire another bit to a different standard just to avoid doing the job right in the first place.

You either install to BS7671, or you don't. You can't pick and choose the bits which suit you.