Arctic or HO7RN-F extension lead?

IIRC the regs for caravan sites were changed recently to require interlocked sockets.
If that is correct, then I'm very pleased to hear it. As I've been saying, common sense certainly suggests that as a very sensible/necessary requirement - arguably more important/necessary than the (required) shuttering of ('household and similar') BS1363 sockets.

Kind Regards, John
 
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Where I worked we had these View attachment 257541 mainly the 32 amp version, made by Martin Lunel these were far better than the cheap plastic versions we use today, the plug had to be inserted and turned to make it live, and the button released it. Technically not to British standard listed in the book, however some times we need to use some common sense, and we all know there is nothing really wrong with a 32 amp extension lead with commando sockets, just being petty and pedantic.
Blooming horrible things, prone to failure.
 
https://www.lewelectrical.co.uk/2019/02/12/18th-edition-regulations-caravan-parks/ claims the requirement was added in the 18th edition. I haven't verified this with primary sources though.
Ah - I din't realise that you were talking about BS7671 (a section of BS7671 which I've never had a reason to look at!) - so, yes, you're right...
BS7671:2018 said:
708.55.1.1 Every socket-outlet or connector shall either comply with:
- BS EN 60309-2 and shall be interlocked and classified to clause 6.1.5 of BS EN 60309-1 to prevent the
socket contacts being live when accessible, or
- be part of an interlocked self-contained product complying with BS EN 60309-4 and classified to clauses
6.1.101 and 6.1.102 of BS EN 60309-4 to prevent the socket contacts being live when accessible.
.......
BS7671:2018 said:
708.553.1.8 Each socket-outlet and its enclosure forming part of the caravan pitch electrical supply equipment shall comply with BS EN 60309-2 and meet the degree of protection of at least IP44 in accordance with BS EN 60529.
708.553.1.14 Socket-outlet protective conductors shall not be connected to a PME earthing facility.
... The means of connection between the caravan pitch socket-outlet and the leisure accommodation vehicle should be an assembly of the following:
- a plug complying with BS EN 60309-2
- a flexible cable type to H05RN-F or H07RN-F (BS EN 50525-2-21) or equivalent, with a protective conductor and having the following characteristics:
- continuous length 25 m (±2 m)
- for current rating 16A, minimum cross-sectional area: 2.5 mm2. For a higher current rating, the crosssectional area must be chosen so that secure tripping of the overcurrent protective device is achieved at the lowest fault current calculated at the end of the cable extension set - conductors to be identified in accordance with Table 51
- a connector complying with BS EN 60309-2.
Unless I'm missing something, it doesn't seem to be explicit about what is required at the female end of the cable connecting the supply to the caravan, although it could be said to be implicit that it is required to be 'interlocked' (or shuttered but i doubt they exist) (it is after all, a 'connector', hence 708.55.1.1 would seem to apply) - ut, as has been discussed, I didn't know that leads with such connectors existed (not that I know anything about caravans ;) ) - for all I know, they may be 'standard'?? @eric????

Kind Regards, John
 
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Caravan sadly gone. I did a google for "16 amp in-line interlocked socket" with no results, can't really see how they could be made and fit on the space around the fixed plug on the caravan?
 
Although it says
553.1.4 Every socket-outlet for household and similar use shall be of the shuttered type and, for an a.c. installation. shall preferably be of a type complying with BS 1363.
I think the question not explicitly answered is whether BS7671 covers just the fixed wiring installation, or by implication whether it also covers items connected by plug and socket. I would have thought not, so in my amateur opinion the end of an extension lead or mains cable would not be a "socket-outlet".

On a related point there was reference to the garden being a special location. If portable equipment and cables fell under BS7671 then logically would you have to notify Building Control when you run an extension lead for your hedge trimmer etc?
 
Caravan sadly gone. I did a google for "16 amp in-line interlocked socket" with no results, can't really see how they could be made and fit on the space around the fixed plug on the caravan?
They are made, I think Lewden as an example, but they are the insert and twist style which in My experience do not have a long enough life expectancy and they cost a lot too.
 
On a related point there was reference to the garden being a special location. If portable equipment and cables fell under BS7671 then logically would you have to notify Building Control when you run an extension lead for your hedge trimmer etc?
The garden is a special location where I live, as is the kitchen, but Part P refers to fixed, so an extension lead in kitchen would not need notifying, but use some cable clips to get it out of the way, and it does need notifying.

But Part P and BS 7671 have nothing to do with each other, Part P is law, BS 7671 is not law, but may be used in a court of law. There are errors with BS 7671, when the rules for RCD protection came out, there was nothing to say it related to low voltage only, so reading the regulation it was also required for extra low voltage, with separated extra low voltage it was pointless fitting a RCD, and at 12 volt they simply would never work.

Some times common sense needs to be used, and a socket like this upload_2022-1-16_12-44-9.png is better outdoors than a socket like this upload_2022-1-16_12-44-50.png I am not talking about either being in the elements. upload_2022-1-16_12-48-54.png This has been the standard way to provide power for caravans and narrow boats for years, OK it seems now they want a linked isolator, I have often thought they are a bit exposed to the elements, but they seem to survive, father-in-law had a 13 amp socket on the wall for his motor caravan which was OK with nothing plugged in, there was a flap, but he left the motor caravan plugged in all the time he was home, and in spite it seeming to lack protection he never did have any problem with it, but I know also no RCD in the house anywhere, he insisted I fit them to protect his grandchildren, be he never fitted them.

The under the control of ordinary person. Well "Skilled person. A person with technical knowledge or sufficient experience to enable him/her to avoid dangers which electricity may create." so if some one fits a socket then suppose they are not ordinary person? "Ordinary person. A person who is neither a skilled person nor an instructed person." if an electrician fits a item in some ones house then the occupants would be looked at as ordinary, but if DIY then are they ordinary?

It just gets silly. I am sure the writers of BS 7671 never expected people to dissect it like this, it does need some common sense.
 
I knew of a house with one of these
257716-fc61e5f4a581dc43a0f3d9a8ecd7fb77.jpg
sorts of sockets screwed to the outside wall for years, the back box rusted to the point the screw lugs failed and was replaced with a plastic patress style but the rusty socket stayed. This was back in last century and the owner was one of our planning officers, I reckon it was in service for 20 years
 
I think the question not explicitly answered is whether BS7671 covers just the fixed wiring installation, or by implication whether it also covers items connected by plug and socket. I would have thought not, so in my amateur opinion the end of an extension lead or mains cable would not be a "socket-outlet".
See my post #49 above. Although not totally clear on the specific issue being discussed, the entirety of Section 708 of BS7671 is about the electricity supply to caravans etc.

Kind Regards, John
 
The garden is a special location where I live, as is the kitchen, but Part P refers to fixed, so an extension lead in kitchen would not need notifying ....
I'm not so sure that's necessarily the case. If one accepts that approved document P as a clarification of what the law (Part P of Building Regs) requires, then the 2006 version of that document (which is the version still applicable in Wales) (and, indeed, subsequent versions for England) includes:

upload_2022-1-16_15-50-14.png


... so if, in Wales, you installed an item of 'fixed equipment' (however you choose to interpret that) using a 13A plug and socket, it sounds as if it would be within the scoipe of Part P, hence notifiable if in a kitchen in Wales.

But Part P and BS 7671 have nothing to do with each other, Part P is law, BS 7671 is not law ...
I wouldn't say that it has nothing to do with it, since the above mentioned Approved document says that compliance with BS7671 is deemed to demonstrate compliance with Part P - and, indeed, that version of the app Doc includes a set of BS7671 certificates in its appendices.

upload_2022-1-16_15-59-22.png


However, your implied point about BS7671 and Part P having different scope is probably valid. Things downstream of (i.e. 'plugged into') a BS1363 socket are, in general, not within the scope of BS7671 but, as above, may be within the scope of Part P.

Kind Regards, John
 
OK I have a copy of BS 7671:2001 I will look latter as to shuttered requirement.
BS 7671:2001 said:
553-01-04 Every socket-outlet for household and similar use shall be of the shuttered type and, for an a.c. installation, shall preferably be of a type complying with BS 1363.
 
OK I have a copy of BS 7671:2001 I will look latter as to shuttered requirement.
So that hasn't changed,other than for the reg number.

However, that has absolutely nothing to do with the main point I was making - namely that I'm not sure that you were necessarily correct in saying that Part P is not applicable (hence notification not required) if an item in a kitchen in Wales is installed via an extension lead fed from a plug/socket

Kind Regards, John
 
However, that has absolutely nothing to do with the main point I was making - namely that I'm not sure that you were necessarily correct in saying that Part P is not applicable (hence notification not required) if an item in a kitchen in Wales is installed via an extension lead fed from a plug/socket
If you want to pay £100 plus vat to use an extension lead you can, but don't think I will.
 
If you want to pay £100 plus vat to use an extension lead you can, but don't think I will.
I personally certainly would not (pay the £100) :)

However, some people are more concerned with 'staying on the right side of the law' than are others, so I hope you would agree that we should be careful to give them definitely correct information about the law.

Given what Approved Doc P (the version thereof which is still applicable in Wales) says, do you now agree with me that we cannot really be sure that you were necessarily, or necessarily always, correct when you wrote...
The garden is a special location where I live, as is the kitchen, but Part P refers to fixed, so an extension lead in kitchen would not need notifying....
:?:

Kind Regards, John
 

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