At last, someone locked up for life!!!

[albaPhenom]

But you align with them. Good for you.

OK. Bit of an odd point to make but I’m sure theres probably many other things I might align with Muslims on, never really considered it an issue.

It seems like you might have me mixed up with some other guys in the forum who care about what some Islamic countries do.

 

[martygturner]

It clearly doesn't, look again. Are you looking at the right-hand column, i.e the two figures added together? It shows numbers within the same range up to the 50s' then a steep climb from the 60s onward. For instance, the 1943 number was much the same as 1903. You need to explain yourself better if I am merely to understand, let alone believe you.

Andy ...you have missed the glaringly obvious in your use of statistics...it proves nothing...the murder rate has not increased the detection of murder and the classification of murder has changed..before the 1970's murders were classed as a single incident no matter how many victims, the victims of Irish terrorism post 1972 were all classed as murders but the sixties bombing victims were not murdered they were unlawfully killed. ...The detection rate for murder has increased due to forensics davances...Laws have been changed especially in the self defence argument and the defence of provocation has been removed triggering more prosecutions for murder...infracide was changed to murder.

The trouble with numbers is that it's not like for like but a moving feast...

Eg in 1953 some 42 burglars were shot and killed in the UK by a homeowner....with all being recorded as lawful killing....If you want to explore it you should have a look at inquest data, 22 women were classed as committing suicide by having a back street abortion in 1958 for example..today that would be murder, along with the 18 women that accidentally died in 1937 by falling down the stairs...

The murder rate has remained fairly static we have changed how we value human life...for the better I think.

 

[transam]

Deterents in many cases do not work never have and never will

Retribution is the order of the day

Punishment to fit the crime

Some say bang some one up for life

I say bump some off

 

[Deleted member 18243]

What happened in 1943 andy, durrrr...? (Clue: have a look at both the war years)

Please stop making a twit of yourself.

Nosey we will have to agree to disagree! Sad, as it is an honour to discuss these things with someone who knows more than Neil Oliver and Peter Hitchens.

Andy ...you have missed the glaringly obvious in your use of statistics...it proves nothing...the murder rate has not increased the detection of murder and the classification of murder has changed..before the 1970's murders were classed as a single incident no matter how many victims,

Interesting. Did the same apply to how attempted murders were classified? The numbers in the ONS table undeniably show a steep increase from abolition onward, and I haven't mentioned other crimes yet. Since the liberal revolution of the 1960s all crimes are up, and this is due to the softening of sentences that occurred in the wake of the abolition of the death penalty, which exerted a downward pressure on all sentencing. Consider the increase in the offence of wounding as described in the Peter Hitchens article I quoted earlier.

The increasingly important charge of 'attempted murder' has also run into trouble. In 2004 417 were proceeded against, and 96 convicted. Prosecutions for wounding or other acts endangering life was even more troublesome, with 7,054 proceeded against and 1,897 convicted. These figures, again, are for charges and convictions rather than instances of the offence, which in both cases is considerably higher. Offences of wounding etc are now close to the 19,000 mark each year, around triple the total for 30 years ago. AS the Independent on Sunday reported on 27th April 1997 : 'Britain's murder rate would be at least treble what it is now but for improvements in medicine and the growing skills of surgeons and paramedics, medical and legal experts believe.

Deterents in many cases do not work never have and never will

Punishment works as a deterrent. If it "doesn't work" it hasn't been severe enough. Look at my yearly murder figures...were all the murderers executed? No. Many think that the death sentence in the USA doesn't work - but there is not much of a death sentence in the USA! Numbers of executions are very low. Most convicted murderers stay on death row for ever. Conclusion: There should be more punishment, and it should be more severe.

 

[Deleted member 18243]

And for a bit of light relief this wonderful photo of the crowd outside Strangeways prison in the 1930s on the day of a hanging. Look at all the happy faces...all knowing that they are safe and secure within Britain's mighty Empire where punishment is justly served. Even the policemen are laughing. This was when the police were with us, not against us.

What a contrast to the scene outside Strangeways nowadays.

 

[gant]

Little was known then of what a dystopian society would be like. Now we live it in graphiç detail.

 

[noseall]

Deterents in many cases do not work never have and never will

Correct. Poor old andy lives in a fantasy world.

 

[gant]

Did you ever get the cane at school noseall?

 

[gant]

Mates brother opened a disco nightclub some years back. First week he let a few get away with a bit of trouble. Being an ex boxer he was quite handy so the second week he starts giving one or two a 'dig' Which had em coming in like church mice the following week.
Whether that would work in today's society with all the knives and coke knocking about, is very much doubtful. A level of bouncers is the order of the day these days, still doesn't stop it going off, so not a deterrent really.

 

[Odds]

And for a bit of light relief this wonderful photo of the crowd outside Strangeways prison in the 1930s on the day of a hanging. Look at all the happy faces...all knowing that they are safe and secure within Britain's mighty Empire where punishment is justly served. Even the policemen are laughing. This was when the police were with us, not against us.

View attachment 281760

What a contrast to the scene outside Strangeways nowadays.

The little chap in the bowler, second from right, looks to have stepped under the coppers arm and is stood there wondering what to do next.
I'm not sure the coppers on the other side need strain themselves so much either.
A curious picture. It looks staged.
AI can take text and transform it into an image nowadays - type in "scoring a goal in the World Cup final, 1966", and it can be you in that immortal moment when "some people are on the pitch..."

And i wouldn't be too warm and fuzzy about British justice in those times, either. We have plenty of documentary evidence to show many people went to the gallows without good reason - which is one of the biggest motives for repealing the death penalty.

 

[noseall]

Did you ever get the cane at school noseall?

Slipper (by the sports teacher ouch!) yes.

 

[gant]

, post: 5319447, member: 28558"]
Slipper (by the sports teacher ouch!) yes.
[/QUOTE]
Relay baton was the weapon of choice of our sports teacher.
The cane was a different animal and there was always a masochist or two who couldn't get enough of six of the best.
For me it was a deterrent so didn't go seeking it out.
Now that's where the problem of administration comes in, in some of the administrators in those days ex forces felt a sense of deflation when the flogging was outsourced to be done only by the headmaster.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

, post: 5319447, member: 28558"]
Slipper (by the sports teacher ouch!) yes.

Relay baton was the weapon of choice of our sports teacher.
The cane was a different animal and there was always a masochist or two who couldn't get enough of six of the best.
For me it was a deterrent so didn't go seeking it out.
Now that's where the problem of administration comes in, in some of the administrators in those days ex forces felt a sense of deflation when the flogging was outsourced to be done only by the headmaster.
[/QUOTE]

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Relay baton was the weapon of choice of our sports teacher.
The cane was a different animal and there was always a masochist or two who couldn't get enough of six of the best.
For me it was a deterrent so didn't go seeking it out.
Now that's where the problem of administration comes in, in some of the administrators in those days ex forces felt a sense of deflation when the flogging was outsourced to be done only by the headmaster.

for once I agree with you.

for some the punishment was a deterrent, for others it wasnt

 

[Odds]

for once I agree with you.

for some the punishment was a deterrent, for others it wasnt

are you suggesting they might've enjoyed it?