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holmslaw
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Ban the sale of twin and earth ? ?
- Thread starter bernardgreen
- Start date
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I think it's probably 60+ years, and therein lies the most obvious response to the question posed by this thread. It has been successfully used for over half a century and is probably present in every single one of the millions of electric installations in the UK - not a very sound reason for 'banning' anything.
As for being introduced with no method of clamping, I strongly suspect that exactly the same had been true of most forms of cable previously introduced.
Are you serious?
As for 'why',you would obviously have to ask them, but I don't think many people other than you see the clamping issue as a problem, so perhaps teh IET don't, either. As for 'undersized CPC', I'm not really sure what criteria you are applying; if you undertake the adiabatic calculations (as accepted/prescribed by IET), I think you'll find that the CPCs of T&E are of adequate CSA by current standards, provided that the required disconnection times are being achieved.
Kind Regards, John.
Real fact - virtually all T&E in common use does have flat sides because that's the way it's made. I've handled a fair bit of cable over the years, and seen quite a bit more, but that one is new to me - presumably cheap since it uses less plastic.
And for good measure, it too could have a stuffing gland if such a thing were considered necessary.
And actually, to say there was absolutely no form of clamping would be an outright lie - unless the basic saddle clamp had not been invented, which I think would be something of a wild claim to make.
Yes, he probably is. Because it's now been demonstrated that there are clamping systems for flat cables, and were before T&E was around, he's shifting the goalposts to be "stuffing gland" type clamping systems.
And of course the answer to the first part is "they didn't" - there were, and are, methods for sheath clamping T&E.
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holmslaw
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Please don't feed the troll.
Please don't feed the troll.
Please don't feed the troll.
Please don't feed the troll.
Please don't feed the troll.
Please don't feed the troll.
Please don't feed the troll.
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holmslaw
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H
holmslaw
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What the regs 543.1.1) actually clearly state is that if one can't be bothered to calculate the required CPC CSA according to 543.1.3, then one can select the CSA in accordance with 543.1.4 (i.e. use the very conservative figures in Table 54.7) - which is what you are referring to above. That 'lazy' method will nearly always result in a substantial over-estimate of the required CSA.
Maybe it would take you that long, but it actually only requires a knowledge of the Ze, circuit design current (to ensure CCC and VD requirements are met) and the approximate length of the circuit concerned; it's then a fairly trivial matter to produce a spreadsheet, or even a program for a programmable caculator, which will give you instant answers. However, after anyone has done that a few dozen times, they are likely to learn that the calculations virtually always indicate that the current CPC CSA's in T&E sized for CCC and VD are more than enough, so probably stop wasting their time doing it every time! If you recall, the initial CPC size of 2.5mm² T&E had to be increased becasue it proved not always to be adeqaute.
For once we agree on something - but it's a bit ironic that you are not only taking the regs fairly seriously, but are actually failing to quote them completely, in an attempt to justify your apparent belief that T&E should not be allowed; one might be forgiven for thinking that you seem to want it both ways
Kind Regarsd, John.
Earlier you wrote that resorting to personal abuse is recognition that you've lost the argument. Now you are resporting to personal abuse to try and deflect the topic away from your lost cause.SimonH2, dodgy name, a lot like JohnW2, with a very similar personna ie 'I don't what I'm talking about but that won't stop me commenting'
On any accessory with saddle clamps then I'd simply fit it in the saddle clamp in the same way as any other type of cable. Simples.
As for the glands, I'd need to sit down and look at the sizes, and I've got more productive things to do with my time.
So once again, as is the norm for people who know they lost the argument a long time ago, I ask you how you would terminal other cables into the accessories you cite ? It's a really simple question, and you claim to have knowledge and experience, yet you refuse to answer it.
None of those were directed at the troll, only at those for whom the penny has not yet dropped.
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holmslaw
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That's obvious, but it seems that my penny didn't drop, either. By directing that list of repetitive comments at the rest of us you were, in fact, yourself providing very nutritious troll food!
You seem very selective and inconsistent in your approach. In many other situations, you seem to be one of the first people to feel that technically silly or incorrect assertions need to be challenged (sometimes very robustly and repetitively!). In any event, if for whatever reason you don't feel inclined to do that in a particular case, the sensible thing to do is surely to just keep quite and maybe ignore the whole thread, rather than post completely pointless messages which criticise other people's involvement in the thread?
Kind Regards, John.
No, I have no need to educate anyone but you - but then you are definitely not open to education.
I did not say that I know of the accessories you cite being available with clamps (of any sort). What I did say is that if an accessory has a saddle clamp then I'd use it in exactly the same way that I would if using round cable.
Now, when are you going to answer the question you've been dodging for so long ?
If using round cable instead of flat T&E, how would you clamp it in "plastic accessories such as ceiling roses, boxes, patrices and circular junction boxes, metal boxes in stud partitions" ?
Come along, you keep saying it's T&E that should be banned, therefore it's only logical that you have a method for (in your mind) safely using these accessories with round cable.
I've already answered your question - for any accessory, I'll use the same clamping method for T&E as I'd use with round cable. Simples.
Note that that doesn't mean I'll be using accessories with clamping facilities since, for some time now, it's been accepted that this isn't needed.
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holmslaw
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