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what do you know what i think??!!Freddie said:
Again you try twisting things tell me where in my post i led you to believe that i only think the british use Dum Dums?? i merely was showing that the british troops are not so whiter than white.
This is along the lines of accusations you've made about me in the past which are totally unjustified, such as i sympathise with terrorists, well Mr Freddie let me tell you this quite clearly, think before you spout your venomous replies as you are ill prepared for criticism of your views and i wouldn't want you to keep getting upset all the time.
Kendor didn't say ONLY the British used them. He said the British used them. Using them is against the rules. EVEN if someone else uses them, IT'S STILL AGAINST THE RULES. It is not a case of two wrongs making a right.
(This was written before I saw Kendor's post. oops.)
But not as often as critisism, in a rather angry tone, is, of any who does not agree with the famous five.
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No you havn't changed anything have you Jackanory, Jackanory.......
Come on Freddie you seem to think we will fall for your rubbish, face facts those put before you, and admit for once you are wrong!
Waffle waffle waffle----where am i wrong and this time produce facts
I am still waiting
Come on Freddie you seem to think we will fall for your rubbish, face facts those put before you, and admit for once you are wrong!
Waffle waffle waffle----where am i wrong and this time produce facts
I am still waiting
B
Big_Spark
Effing hell Fellas, can we blooming well keep this on Target, next you'll be draggin up Agincourt and the fact that the British used a New and deadly weapon (The English Longbow) that was not in the spirit of warfare at the time...
We are talking about Japan FFS, not the Boar war, not Dum Dum bullets, that NEVER saw action in combat after the 2nd Boar war, we are not talking about what we did or did not do for the blooming colonies.
We are Talking about Japan's action from 1931 to 1945, the Justification for the Atomic Bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and tha attitude the Japanese have toward the whole issue.
Can we please stop the childish nitpicking and at least TRY to act like adults...
We are talking about Japan FFS, not the Boar war, not Dum Dum bullets, that NEVER saw action in combat after the 2nd Boar war, we are not talking about what we did or did not do for the blooming colonies.
We are Talking about Japan's action from 1931 to 1945, the Justification for the Atomic Bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and tha attitude the Japanese have toward the whole issue.
Can we please stop the childish nitpicking and at least TRY to act like adults...
B
Big_Spark
Regarding the original topic, I watched a documentary about the Bombings yesterday, and about the War in the Pacific and the Japanes campaigns from 1931 onward.
Regarding the Justification for the Bombings, recently Japan released previously classified documents that had been handed back to them byt he Americans, this was documenttation that was a detailed plan of how they would defend the Home Islands and of casualty Estimates based on actions on outlying islands that had already fallen.
The Japanese Army estimated that the Allies would win a total victory, however they said this victory would cost...
Between 10 and 15 Million Japanese Military personnel Killed
Between 5 and 15 Million Japanese Civilians Killed
Between 8 and 13 Million Allied Troops Killed
They also estimated similar numbers of injured amongst the Allied ranks, but there was no estimate for injured Japanese.
They also had extensive plans for the defence of Tokyo, this included releasing up to 1500 Tons of Nerve Gas that they had accumulated over the years, they estimated this would inflict another 2 Million Civilian deaths, 4 Million Military deaths and 4 Million Allied Deaths.
Further, they had plans for Suicide Bombers, much like todays Arabs, they had already started to recruit and train children as young as 10 years old to undertake this task.
They had plans to drive a large number of vehicles flying White Flags into Allied Lines, then detonate explosives onboard and at the same time release Mustard Gas.
Plans had been set in place for underwater Kamikaze Mines. These would sit on the sea bed of likely landing beaches and harbours, when a ship passed over head, this man propelled "mine" would rise to the keel and detonate using 20 tons of HE, blowing the ship in half.
These are a few of the nasties they had planned, The Entire Nation intended to fight to the death. This is not the plans for a few screwed up individuals, or a group of misguided psychopaths, as in Germany, but plans of an Entire Nation to Die fighting a war they knew they could not win.
If it a fact that after the Japanese Surrender, an estimated 250,000 Military personnel and Civilians commited ritual suicide in shame..it is not shame, it is the action of a sick and twisted mindset that in endemic in the Japanese.
Remember people, when the Yanks finally took Okinawa, nearly 100,000 civilians residents commited suicide, the Civilian Populatioon in Japan was as much to blame as the Military, they KNEW full well how prisoners were treated, the KNEW full well how civilian populations in China, Manchuria, Korea, Vietnam (Indo-China), Burma, the Phillipines and Indonesai to name a few, had and were treated, and they did not object as they truly believed it was right as these people had been defeated. They treated their pets better than fellow humans were.
Lets not forget, to play devils advocate, the Japanese have a lot to answer for, but it is not the Jpas making a noise about the Bombs, but kiss arse Liberal idiots who KNOW NOTHING about what the Jpas really did, about the truth behiond the Pain still felt in many nations, including our own, by people mistreated by them.
Japan is still an open wound, and unless Japan is dealt with, it will start a war, and this will be the fault of the Japanese and their arrogant manner and the apologist liberals in the West.
Lets not foget, it was apologists that let Hitler rise to Power, and their bemoaning of the likes of Churchill that prevented any real action being taken to stop a War that ultimetly led to it...and that folly cost at least 100 Million lives, how many will the next one cost, and who gets the Bill...
Regarding the Justification for the Bombings, recently Japan released previously classified documents that had been handed back to them byt he Americans, this was documenttation that was a detailed plan of how they would defend the Home Islands and of casualty Estimates based on actions on outlying islands that had already fallen.
The Japanese Army estimated that the Allies would win a total victory, however they said this victory would cost...
Between 10 and 15 Million Japanese Military personnel Killed
Between 5 and 15 Million Japanese Civilians Killed
Between 8 and 13 Million Allied Troops Killed
They also estimated similar numbers of injured amongst the Allied ranks, but there was no estimate for injured Japanese.
They also had extensive plans for the defence of Tokyo, this included releasing up to 1500 Tons of Nerve Gas that they had accumulated over the years, they estimated this would inflict another 2 Million Civilian deaths, 4 Million Military deaths and 4 Million Allied Deaths.
Further, they had plans for Suicide Bombers, much like todays Arabs, they had already started to recruit and train children as young as 10 years old to undertake this task.
They had plans to drive a large number of vehicles flying White Flags into Allied Lines, then detonate explosives onboard and at the same time release Mustard Gas.
Plans had been set in place for underwater Kamikaze Mines. These would sit on the sea bed of likely landing beaches and harbours, when a ship passed over head, this man propelled "mine" would rise to the keel and detonate using 20 tons of HE, blowing the ship in half.
These are a few of the nasties they had planned, The Entire Nation intended to fight to the death. This is not the plans for a few screwed up individuals, or a group of misguided psychopaths, as in Germany, but plans of an Entire Nation to Die fighting a war they knew they could not win.
If it a fact that after the Japanese Surrender, an estimated 250,000 Military personnel and Civilians commited ritual suicide in shame..it is not shame, it is the action of a sick and twisted mindset that in endemic in the Japanese.
Remember people, when the Yanks finally took Okinawa, nearly 100,000 civilians residents commited suicide, the Civilian Populatioon in Japan was as much to blame as the Military, they KNEW full well how prisoners were treated, the KNEW full well how civilian populations in China, Manchuria, Korea, Vietnam (Indo-China), Burma, the Phillipines and Indonesai to name a few, had and were treated, and they did not object as they truly believed it was right as these people had been defeated. They treated their pets better than fellow humans were.
Lets not forget, to play devils advocate, the Japanese have a lot to answer for, but it is not the Jpas making a noise about the Bombs, but kiss arse Liberal idiots who KNOW NOTHING about what the Jpas really did, about the truth behiond the Pain still felt in many nations, including our own, by people mistreated by them.
Japan is still an open wound, and unless Japan is dealt with, it will start a war, and this will be the fault of the Japanese and their arrogant manner and the apologist liberals in the West.
Lets not foget, it was apologists that let Hitler rise to Power, and their bemoaning of the likes of Churchill that prevented any real action being taken to stop a War that ultimetly led to it...and that folly cost at least 100 Million lives, how many will the next one cost, and who gets the Bill...
Well Fwl---you and me have stated history--facts--- and possible events if it isnt sorted.
Those ignorants who are either Anti-British or Anti anything i say or Anti decent thread come out play the usual trick of trying to destroy the topic because of??????????? i believe it's called trolling i dont know. one thing is for sure they know nothing other than what they can snatch of the net in 5 minutes
You are wasting your time as you will be branded nasty or having an anger problem because you stated some not very nice truths.
This doesnt apply to you Adam
Those ignorants who are either Anti-British or Anti anything i say or Anti decent thread come out play the usual trick of trying to destroy the topic because of??????????? i believe it's called trolling i dont know. one thing is for sure they know nothing other than what they can snatch of the net in 5 minutes
You are wasting your time as you will be branded nasty or having an anger problem because you stated some not very nice truths.
This doesnt apply to you Adam
B
Big_Spark
Freddie, i don't beleive these poeple are Anti British or Pro Japanese, they are simply being Nieve as the truth is difficult for them to accept. I genuinly think they simply are unable to accept than a whole nation of people can be bad, and the Japanese were at the start of the 20th Century. They try to quote the Germans, but it was a minority mindset here that took them to war, a war the vast bulk of Germans did not want but had no choice but to fight in. With Japan the nation as a single entity wanted the conflict, supported the conflict, and accepted and supported the abysmal treatment of POW's and Civilians alike. And that mindset still exists in Japan, they still will not accept the truth of their actions in nearly 30 nations and the fact that they BUTCHERED well over 40 Million people in 14 years of conquest..
These people are often religious in nature, and they cannot understand why anyone disagrees with them. These are the TRUE dangerous people in this world, as they are normally the ones who take a nation to war by inaction, leaving it's military unprepared and under-equipped to defend itself.
I simply have no time for them, they talk hogwash and can pray all they like, the truth is wahat it is, accept it or shut the hell up and stay out of the way of those who can tolerate reality..
These people are often religious in nature, and they cannot understand why anyone disagrees with them. These are the TRUE dangerous people in this world, as they are normally the ones who take a nation to war by inaction, leaving it's military unprepared and under-equipped to defend itself.
I simply have no time for them, they talk hogwash and can pray all they like, the truth is wahat it is, accept it or shut the hell up and stay out of the way of those who can tolerate reality..
I
Igorian
FWL_Engineer said:
So what should be done?
FWL Engineer
Your post is most interesting and to SUPPORT your discussion points
may I direct you and others to the following link.
WAS THE ATOMIC BOMBING OF JAPAN IN 1945 JUSTIFIABLE Link :
http://www.users.bigpond.com/pacificwar/AtomBomb_Japan.html
Cheers
Your post is most interesting and to SUPPORT your discussion points
may I direct you and others to the following link.
WAS THE ATOMIC BOMBING OF JAPAN IN 1945 JUSTIFIABLE Link :
http://www.users.bigpond.com/pacificwar/AtomBomb_Japan.html
Cheers
B
Big_Spark
Igorian, that is nnot an easy question to answer as the results of any action the Japanese take cannot be guaranteed as being accepted in the way that may be meant and is certainly required.
However one step on this path is for the japanese as a nation to issue OFFICIAL Apologies to all countires that were effected by their imperialism bewteen 1931 and 1945. Thgis is all many want, they know that no monetary payment can ever undo or make up for the damage done, and japan could probably not afford to make a financial package as compensation with collapsing their economy.
The Japanese also need to make some SERIOUS changes to their culture that means they teach the truth about what happened, not so these children are ashamed or anything silly like that, but so that they do not deny the truth as it is these denials of the truth that offends so many people all over the world.
Also they need to allay the fears the world has that they do not have any imperial asperations still. Despite the fact that the consitution they have (written by the Victors at the end of the War) does not allow them a large or offensive Military capability, they do desire one, as recent reports show. I don't think anyone would deny the Japanese the ability to defend themselves, but that also means they then have the capability to be aggressive to others in the region.
There are huge issues in the region still. Japan still holds islands that are Chinese territory, Russia still holds Sakalin island, that is actually Japanese, and so on. There are many open wounds in the region, and not all the blame lies with Japan, but Japans arrogance simply makes things 100 times worse than they need to be..
However one step on this path is for the japanese as a nation to issue OFFICIAL Apologies to all countires that were effected by their imperialism bewteen 1931 and 1945. Thgis is all many want, they know that no monetary payment can ever undo or make up for the damage done, and japan could probably not afford to make a financial package as compensation with collapsing their economy.
The Japanese also need to make some SERIOUS changes to their culture that means they teach the truth about what happened, not so these children are ashamed or anything silly like that, but so that they do not deny the truth as it is these denials of the truth that offends so many people all over the world.
Also they need to allay the fears the world has that they do not have any imperial asperations still. Despite the fact that the consitution they have (written by the Victors at the end of the War) does not allow them a large or offensive Military capability, they do desire one, as recent reports show. I don't think anyone would deny the Japanese the ability to defend themselves, but that also means they then have the capability to be aggressive to others in the region.
There are huge issues in the region still. Japan still holds islands that are Chinese territory, Russia still holds Sakalin island, that is actually Japanese, and so on. There are many open wounds in the region, and not all the blame lies with Japan, but Japans arrogance simply makes things 100 times worse than they need to be..
B
Big_Spark
rederech said:
Nice link Red, thanks...Yet another nail in the coffin of the apologists methinks..
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