Boiler not switching on, pump not running, no hot water - please help?

[Harry Bloomfield]

How do I check what wires that disappear down the hole in the my airing cupboard floor are the ones that arrive at my timer mounting plate when they are in different parts of the house and are much the same, beyond my comedy suggestion of 60foot long multi meter cables on continuity beep?

Surely I need to assess every part - the issue being that so much of the wiring is hidden. Back to my question - how do electricians identify which wire in the airing cupboard is the same wire that appears at the timer when there are several to choose from - it makes confirming wiring extremely difficult? Or is there an easy way I've not figured out?

The 60 foot wire would be one method, another would be to use something you can rely upon as being a known to be common around the house instead. The earth or earth wires (providing they all remain connected together) could be used instead of your 60 foot long wire and or the copper pipes. You connect a wire end to the earth, then find the other end by connecting your meter between earth and each wire in turn, until it beeps.

Start by working out and proving where each cable (not wire, the group of wires in the cable) goes, and mark them with stick labels at each end.

That joint box is just a complete mess, it looks like something a 5 year old might do and it doesn't follow the standard numbering for such a joint box, from what I could see.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Wow - bit of a mess there

 

[HazelFlorist]

The 60 foot wire would be one method, another would be to use something you can rely upon as being a known to be common around the house instead. The earth or earth wires (providing they all remain connected together) could be used instead of your 60 foot long wire and or the copper pipes. You connect a wire end to the earth, then find the other end by connecting your meter between earth and each wire in turn, until it beeps.

Start by working out and proving where each cable (not wire, the group of wires in the cable) goes, and mark them with stick labels at each end.

That joint box is just a complete mess, it looks like something a 5 year old might do and it doesn't follow the standard numbering for such a joint box, from what I could see.

Love it! Thanks.

 

[HazelFlorist]

Wow - bit of a mess there

Indeed - a hornet's nest of vipers I think is the term.

Difficult to know where to start.

 

[HazelFlorist]

Given that the two spare wires are joined up at the mounting plate (might not as well be there) and might not lead to the airing cupboard - if I haven't actually got a HW off cable, I'm stuffed, right?

 

[ianmcd]

Here is a picture of the inside of the cyl stat - the blue wire on the right attached to number 3 joins up to the grey wire on the 3 port valve with no other connections going anywhere from this particular junction on the connector block.

Does this help?

As a dragon would say I am out, I will leave you to @stem , he has a lot more patience than me, you were asked what wire is in terminal 2 and it is yellow yet you are determined to go on about blue which is in terminal 3 COLORS MEAN NOTHING IN YOUR CIRCUIT

 

[HazelFlorist]

As a dragon would say I am out, I will leave you to @stem , he has a lot more patience than me, you were asked what wire is in terminal 2 and it is yellow yet you are determined to go on about blue which is in terminal 3 COLORS MEAN NOTHING IN YOUR CIRCUIT

Sorry, I thought I was asked whether the grey wire from the 3 port was connected to terminal 2 in the stat - it isn't, as per the picture I posted.

I'm sorry if I've misunderstood the question, and I get that the colours are meaningless (except the 3 port grey wire it seems - people seem happy with that one).

We have established that the grey wire is connected to cyl stat T3, along with earth as per the picture I posted, and that there is no 'HW off' wire to that junction in the wiring centre as per the typical wiring diagrams.

We have established that jumping L with T3 and T4 at the backing plate switches everything on and that by manipulating the room and cyl stat, the two channels switch on and off as expected.

Does this not tell us that fundamentally the basic components other than the timer are functional and given a hard wired (at the timer) 'all on' command, are working correctly.

What next?

 

[ianmcd]

I give up

 

[HazelFlorist]

Just checked that T1 on the cyl stat (red in the picture) goes to nowhere - i.e it terminates in the choco block but there are no wires joining up with this on the other side - it's a dead end.
T2 in the cyl stat (yellow in the pic) joins up with the brown/orange(?) wire from the 3 port valve.

Does that help?

 

[HazelFlorist]

I give up

Thanks for your help so far - sorry if I'm frustrating you - I'm trying my best.

 

[HazelFlorist]

Of course it doesn't help when you open the thermosat expecting to see terminals labelled C, 1, 2 and actually find 1,2 3 - introducing ambiguity as to what is what - is it safe to assume C is 3?

 

[ianmcd]

Thanks for your help so far - sorry if I'm frustrating you - I'm trying my best.

would help if you actually read what you are asked

 

[HazelFlorist]

would help if you actually read what you are asked

I'm trying. But I'll try harder.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I'm trying. But I'll try harder.

It is confused by so many of us trying to help..

 

[dilalio]

@HazelFlorist given that you are reluctant to get someone in (for various reasons) and are keen to do this yourself, the best advice I can give you is to completely rewire the whole lot.

Flat cable twin & earth and triple & earth is not ideal but you're stuck with it.

Remove all the cables at the wiring centre and "Bell them out" using the buzzer on your mm to identify which cables go to other parts of the house, by joining 2 cores at the far end and mm across at the wiring centre.

Label those cables (not cores).

Get a new wiring centre that can be paired up with the most common diagrams (honeywell would be your best bet as these are referred to in most wiring diagrams). And it will have proper clamps for securing the cables as they enter. We call them "idiot boxes" so, a clue there .

Get a new programmer and cylinder stat, again stick with honeywell so everything is easier to reference.

Take your time and rewire everything... This way you will learn and understand the concept and process, rather than trying to decipher the existing concoction.

Use the 3 port as base as this is usually nearby and will always be consistent in colour coding.

You can use your immersion heater for hot water and its still warm enough to do without heating, whilst you work through this and get it completed.

That's my advice