Do deterrents deter?

[cantaloup63]

It seems entirely reasonable for incarceration to be highly unpleasant since the somewhat expensive soft-soap approach trying to rehabilitate offenders doesn't appear to be any more effective and doesn't seem to make potential criminals quake in fear and thus reconsider their actions. Also lengths of sentences seems too soft and inconsistent. So neither the retributionist nor utilitarian criteria are fulfilled.

On the subject of death penalty, the first thing is to accept that there are times when there really is 100% certainty of the accused being guilty.

 

[conny]

Punishments should be harsh, consistent with the crime and enforced with military discipline, preferably by forces personnel who have been made redundant due to expenditure cuts.
With modern technology there should be little doubt about who is guilty. I certainly don't subscribe to the recent claim that evidence in a case was contaminated because it was on the opposite side of a room which contained articles belonging to the victim of the crime.
FFS! That means my chicken drumsticks, wrapped in bacofoil, have been contaminated by the gammon, also wrapped in bacofoil, on the other shelf in my fridge!!!

 

[Blasphemous]

Of course, there is another way...

 

[libby lou lou]

Being an ex prisoner from the days of Detention Centre and Borstal,1975- 1983 ish, believe me that was hard if you went in not a knuckler, you either sunk or come out one. prison breeds.

A few of my ex friends are doing life or have done life, some are still up to there old tricks when they get out, having been put away for life with the full recall if they get caught. they are still naughty.

They do not learn, they do not learn, they do not learn.

Keep them out of the system to start with, i was a **** but my kids ain't going down that road

lack of jobs dosen't help, but serious discipline is the way forward.

 

[joinerjohn]

The government keep bleating on about an expanding prison population and not enough prisons to house them all. ..... Easy answer,, build more prisons, (thus helping the construction industry)) And as I've said before. make sure they are harsh places. Remove the pool tables, TV's. Make all prisoners work 12 hrs a day sewing mail bags, breaking rocks etc. They can then spend at least 8 hrs in a cell sleeping (because they are tired) No gyms, expensive libraries, Open University course, etc etc.
Make judges and magistrates hand down meaningful sentences,,, Not these namby pamby 6 months that really mean 3 months. Adopt the American , Three strikes and you get life, thus keeping habitual criminals away from society. Surely if we do these things the message will filter through.
As for the death penalty, only in cases where there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever. (some people actually admit their guilt) or forensics prove without any doubt, the person who committed the act, then the ultimate deterrent should be used. I'll offer my services as hangman if needed.

 

[imamartian]

The government keep bleating on about an expanding prison population and not enough prisons to house them all. ..... Easy answer,, build more prisons, (thus helping the construction industry)) And as I've said before. make sure they are harsh places. Remove the pool tables, TV's. Make all prisoners work 12 hrs a day sewing mail bags, breaking rocks etc. They can then spend at least 8 hrs in a cell sleeping (because they are tired) No gyms, expensive libraries, Open University course, etc etc.
Make judges and magistrates hand down meaningful sentences,,, Not these namby pamby 6 months that really mean 3 months. Adopt the American , Three strikes and you get life, thus keeping habitual criminals away from society. Surely if we do these things the message will filter through.
As for the death penalty, only in cases where there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever. (some people actually admit their guilt) or forensics prove without any doubt, the person who committed the act, then the ultimate deterrent should be used. I'll offer my services as hangman if needed.

we should do all that... be we're not in power... we're only the people who live here. We need to vote in a government that wants that.... but there aint one !!

You should become a politician John !!

 

[imamartian]

On the subject of death penalty, the first thing is to accept that there are times when there really is 100% certainty of the accused being guilty.

I don't think you're right..... that sort of thing is usually decided by the opinion of 12 random people off the street, or an armed officer who needed to make a call in a tricky situation.

I personally am in favour of the death penalty... even with a 1% error rate... if 1 in a 100 villains get wrongly put to death, it would potentially save many lives, so bring it on... (in theory ....that sounds fine !!)

 

[conny]

The government keep bleating on about an expanding prison population and not enough prisons to house them all. ..... Easy answer,, build more prisons, (thus helping the construction industry)) And as I've said before. make sure they are harsh places. Remove the pool tables, TV's. Make all prisoners work 12 hrs a day sewing mail bags, breaking rocks etc. They can then spend at least 8 hrs in a cell sleeping (because they are tired) No gyms, expensive libraries, Open University course, etc etc.
Make judges and magistrates hand down meaningful sentences,,, Not these namby pamby 6 months that really mean 3 months. Adopt the American , Three strikes and you get life, thus keeping habitual criminals away from society. Surely if we do these things the message will filter through.
As for the death penalty, only in cases where there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever. (some people actually admit their guilt) or forensics prove without any doubt, the person who committed the act, then the ultimate deterrent should be used. I'll offer my services as hangman if needed.

we should do all that... be we're not in power... we're only the people who live here. We need to vote in a government that wants that.... but there aint one !!

You should become a politician John !!

But we are the people who elected them to carry out our wishes.

 

[imamartian]

The government keep bleating on about an expanding prison population and not enough prisons to house them all. ..... Easy answer,, build more prisons, (thus helping the construction industry)) And as I've said before. make sure they are harsh places. Remove the pool tables, TV's. Make all prisoners work 12 hrs a day sewing mail bags, breaking rocks etc. They can then spend at least 8 hrs in a cell sleeping (because they are tired) No gyms, expensive libraries, Open University course, etc etc.
Make judges and magistrates hand down meaningful sentences,,, Not these namby pamby 6 months that really mean 3 months. Adopt the American , Three strikes and you get life, thus keeping habitual criminals away from society. Surely if we do these things the message will filter through.
As for the death penalty, only in cases where there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever. (some people actually admit their guilt) or forensics prove without any doubt, the person who committed the act, then the ultimate deterrent should be used. I'll offer my services as hangman if needed.

we should do all that... be we're not in power... we're only the people who live here. We need to vote in a government that wants that.... but there aint one !!

You should become a politician John !!

But we are the people who elected them to carry out our wishes.

you mean a bit like "tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"? yeah that works.... !!!

i don't really think any mainstream party advocates the death penalty, or even (proper) tough prisons does it?

 

[joinerjohn]

But we are the people who elected them to carry out our wishes.

Sadly Conny, the politicians we elect are usually elected on what they tell us they're party will do (not what they're conscious tells them to do) Sadly most politicians have to "toe the party" line. Party politics, remain the key to elections, so elections will never be about what the "People" want. It will always be about what a political party want to do.

 

[Susiejb]

The government keep bleating on about an expanding prison population and not enough prisons to house them all. ..... Easy answer,, build more prisons, (thus helping the construction industry)) And as I've said before. make sure they are harsh places. Remove the pool tables, TV's. Make all prisoners work 12 hrs a day sewing mail bags, breaking rocks etc. They can then spend at least 8 hrs in a cell sleeping (because they are tired) No gyms, expensive libraries, Open University course, etc etc.
Make judges and magistrates hand down meaningful sentences,,, Not these namby pamby 6 months that really mean 3 months. Adopt the American , Three strikes and you get life, thus keeping habitual criminals away from society. Surely if we do these things the message will filter through.
As for the death penalty, only in cases where there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever. (some people actually admit their guilt) or forensics prove without any doubt, the person who committed the act, then the ultimate deterrent should be used. I'll offer my services as hangman if needed.

Not sure about the mailbags and breaking rocks JJ but totally agree with removal of all that makes life pleasant.....and finding some form of useful but extremely hard work. With modern day DNA evidence it is much easier to make a definite conviction....I would not advocate the death penalty for all murder.....circumstances would decide....murderers such as Ian Huntley should be put to death without a doubt.....all paedophiles should be castrated....an absolute despicable crime....
Maybe politicians don't take notice because we all complain but don't actually make our voices heard enough !

 

[cantaloup63]

Prisoners should be set to work sweatshop style and the proceeds of their labours should be spent on food, heating and lighting for themselves. Any surplus should be given to victims of crimes. I would further advocate the use of pushbike generators so that they have to physically create enough energy for their own hot water.

The main practical arguments against the death penalty involve certainty of guilt and the possibility of a criminal helping police with other enquiries.
In which case, how about 24 hour solitary confinement with no communication with anyone else other than on a very limited basis? Conversations with their briefs and police would be monitored to ensure that nothing other than strict business was discussed - no family information, no social information, no global news. A prisoner may decide to kill himself by accepting his/her guilt for the crime and offering an unequivocal apology to the family of the victims concerned, but this would have to be given under close scrutiny and the use of lie detectors and/or other psychological tests to determine the honesty of such an apology. "Successful" applicants would be given suitable pill to take of their own free will within the confines of their cell.

Seems to cover the objections

 

[joe-90]

Prisons should be a boot camp type environment whereby prisoners march around all day learning discipline and respect for authority. If they don't co-operate they get no food or heating. A few years doing that 24/7 would sort them (or kill them).

 

[Brigadier]

For some, deterrents will not work, but for the (majority?), they will. So overall, fear of the deterrent keeps society in order, I reckon.

 

[masona]

Prisons should be a boot camp type environment whereby prisoners march around all day learning discipline and respect for authority. If they don't co-operate they get no food or heating. A few years doing that 24/7 would sort them (or kill them).

Up to a point Joe but I don't think you can't change people personality which tends to stay the same over the years and with biological which can't really be changed at all.

You got it right regarding discipline which should've been done at the beginning with the right parents attitude.